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Post by Peterj on Aug 4, 2018 22:22:34 GMT
Many times I'm faced with a situation with very high dynamic range so I resort to shooting brackets and merging them as HDR in On1 or Exposure Merge in PSE. I'm not always a fan of either and spend too much time trying to recover the DC without the HDR look.
Using PSE 18 and Elements+ I opened a 7 raw image bracket in PSE, applied Elements+ noise stacking script as a trial [no adjustments were made to the raw files]. The resulting psd file was opened on On1 adjusting tonal balance, applying a dynamic contrast filter with luminosity mask and adding a lens blur to the foreground attempting to match the background. I prefer the left noise stacking image over the right hdr created using On1.
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Post by Bailey on Aug 5, 2018 4:10:10 GMT
Hi Peter,
Looking at your 2 images on my screen, I am not sure you would have really needed HDR processing for the scene.
Given HDR processing was originally developed to output an image with the full dynamic range of the scene which was larger than the dynamic range of the camera taking the photo, I would think that most, if not all, not too old DSLR's can capture the dynamic range I see in your 2 images.
It's not clear to me from your post what you are actually trying to achieve with your HDR processing in this case.
Are you sure you really needed HDR processing to output the full dynamic range?
Which of your 2 images match what you actually saw when you took the photos?
You mentioned 7 brackets, but on it's own that doesn't mean much. What is the number of stops between your darkest and brightest bracketed image and what increments in stops did you use in the bracketed images?
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Post by Peterj on Aug 6, 2018 1:48:00 GMT
Post is about Elements+
1 - experiment is to reduce noise ... I thought others might benefit
2 - 7 images separated by 1 ev each [-3.33 to + 2.33]
3 - stacking similar images provides a noise reduction benefit
4 - I often use exposure blending [HDR] to reduce noise
5 - noise stacking in Elements+ produces an image close to the original ... no fighting the HDR aspects
Results thus far are promising, I'll have no reservation shooting at a much higher [noisy] ISO in the future.
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Post by Bailey on Aug 6, 2018 6:25:06 GMT
Thank you for the clarification Peter. I see from your info that there is a 5 stop dynamic range in your flower scene, assuming you spot metered the darkest and brightest elements in the scene to determine its dynamic range. Given most DLSR's nowadays have a dynamic range of around 10 stops, give or take a stop or 2 (the human eye can see ~20 stops) your camera should easily be able to capture the 5 stop dynamic range in the scene. Given the very high quality noise removal of ACR (at least in my experience) it would be interesting to compare the noise reduction of your scene using a single correctly exposed photo in ACR and the method you described in your OP. Fwiw, I suspect you might get a better evaluation of noise reduction using your Elements+ method compared to ACR (or whatever) if you took bracketed photos of a scene with a dynamic range much larger than the dynamic range of your camera. As I mentioned earlier, from your info the 5 stop dynamic range of your flower scene should be well within the dynamic range of your camera. Anyway, just some food for thought  |
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Post by Sepiana on Aug 6, 2018 6:49:23 GMT
Post is about Elements+ 1 - experiment is to reduce noise ... I thought others might benefit 2 - 7 images separated by 1 ev each [-3.33 to + 2.33] 3 - stacking similar images provides a noise reduction benefit 4 - I often use exposure blending [HDR] to reduce noise 5 - noise stacking in Elements+ produces an image close to the original ... no fighting the HDR aspects Results thus far are promising, I'll have no reservation shooting at a much higher [noisy] ISO in the future. Pete, thanks for conducting this experiment and sharing the results with our members! This information will undoubtedly benefit users of Elements+.
For those of you who may not be familiar with Elements+, . . .
Elements+ is an add-on for Photoshop Elements created by one of our members, Andrei Doubrovski . It is available for Windows and Mac users and the price is right ($12). If you are interested in learning more about it, just check About Elements+.
I have Elements+ and highly recommend it. It is worth every penny. Furthermore, the customer service provided by Andrei is a five-star one.
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Post by Bailey on Aug 6, 2018 7:00:04 GMT
Yes sepiana, I also have Elements+ and can very highly recommend it to anyone interested
If I can get some time in the future I will try Peter's experiment but with a scene whose dynamic range it much greater than my camera's as opposed to Peter using a scene with a dynamic range which should be well within his camera as posted earlier.
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Post by kdcintx on Aug 6, 2018 16:15:47 GMT
I have wondered about noise stacking v. HDR but never did a comparison. Looks like noise stacking worked better than HDR. Thank you Pete for this comparison.
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Post by Bailey on Aug 6, 2018 23:45:17 GMT
Hi Peter,
Taking a closer look at the enlargement version of your image, I see it is only 1807px x 512px (In Firefox, I right-click the image and select "View image info").
I am sure your original and processed raw files would have been at their much larger original high resolution size. When you down size images, as in this case for posting, pixels are thrown away and so any noise that might be seen in a high resolution image can be much less obvious in a low resolution image.
Looking at your 2 images, on my screen both appear to be pretty much free of noise as far as I can tell, but I don't know how much noise was present in the original images so I can't really make a conclusive determination of which image or method of noise removal is better.
As I am sure you are aware, noise removal should really be done while viewing an image at 100%. The same applies when reviewing the quality of noise removal in an image. Obviously we cannot view/review your original and processed images at 100% here.
I am interested in the concept of your comparison, so I will have to make time to set up a similar comparison, but also include ACR, using a high contrast scene whose dynamic range is larger than my camera's and see what I come up with regarding quality of noise reduction when I try to pull details out of shadows.
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Post by Peterj on Aug 7, 2018 0:28:33 GMT
Post is about Elements+ 1 - experiment is to reduce noise ... I thought others might benefit 2 - 7 images separated by 1 ev each [-3.33 to + 2.33] 3 - stacking similar images provides a noise reduction benefit 4 - I often use exposure blending [HDR] to reduce noise 5 - noise stacking in Elements+ produces an image close to the original ... no fighting the HDR aspects Results thus far are promising, I'll have no reservation shooting at a much higher [noisy] ISO in the future. Pete, thanks for conducting this experiment and sharing the results with our members! This information will undoubtedly benefit users of Elements+.
For those of you who may not be familiar with Elements+, . . .
Elements+ is an add-on for Photoshop Elements created by one of our members, Andrei Doubrovski . It is available for Windows and Mac users and the price is right ($12). If you are interested in learning more about it, just check About Elements+.
I have Elements+ and highly recommend it. It is worth every penny. Furthermore, the customer service provided by Andrei is a five-star one.
You're most welcome! I'm always willing to share both good and bad experiences hoping to help others.
While I've been engaged in photography for about 60 years it's always been a hobby; so instead of spending loads of money on the latest and greatest I look for way to maximize results from the equipment I own.
A couple of years ago I investigated Elements+ for it's focus stacking capabilities; I was pleasantly surprised when I upgraded to PSE 18 and the associated Elements+ version finding noise stacking. I know it doesn't convert PSE to full blown PS, but it certainly unlocks plenty of PS goodies hidden in PSE!
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Post by Peterj on Aug 7, 2018 0:33:59 GMT
I have wondered about noise stacking v. HDR but never did a comparison. Looks like noise stacking worked better than HDR. Thank you Pete for this comparison. You're most welcome! Glad to help ... from my recent reading I've gathered one does not have to bracket exposure to take advantage of noise stacking ... simply take multiple images and stack ... works well because noise is mostly random.
If you don't mind please post a trial in this thread.
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Post by Bailey on Aug 7, 2018 1:09:25 GMT
... ... If you don't mind please post a trial in this thread.
No problem , but it'll be more appropriate to start a fresh thread as I will be including ACR. |
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Post by Peterj on Aug 7, 2018 1:26:00 GMT
... ... If you don't mind please post a trial in this thread.
No problem , but it'll be more appropriate to start a fresh thread as I will be including ACR. Please start your own thread and introduce anything you desire. This thread is about Elements+ and noise stacking. I really don't appreciate your hijacking this thread.
Perhaps a thread comparing ACR and Elements+ noise reduction would benefit some folks here. |
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Post by Bailey on Aug 7, 2018 1:32:14 GMT
No problem Peter, that is exactly what I said I was going to do (start a new thread)
kdcintx didn't say he was going to do a trial and I previously posted that I will and the reasons why, so I assumed your request to post a trial was mainly directed at me.
Perhaps in the future it will be better if you make it clearer who you are directing requests to.
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Post by Sepiana on Aug 7, 2018 1:59:05 GMT
kdcintx didn't say he was going to do a trial and I previously posted that I will and the reasons why, so I assumed your request to post a trial was mainly directed at me. Perhaps in the future it will be better if you make it clearer who you are directing requests to.
Your advice to Pete is inappropriate. Pete was very clear as to whom he was addressing his request. His request was a direct response to kdcintx's post. As they are both on the same wavelength (Elements+, focus stacking, noise removal), it is quite alright for kdcintx to post a trial in this thread.
I have wondered about noise stacking v. HDR but never did a comparison. Looks like noise stacking worked better than HDR. Thank you Pete for this comparison. You're most welcome! Glad to help ... from my recent reading I've gathered one does not have to bracket exposure to take advantage of noise stacking ... simply take multiple images and stack ... works well because noise is mostly random.
If you don't mind please post a trial in this thread.
Members interested in this topic and in adding other variables to their experiment (such as ACR) are encouraged to create their own thread. Let's keep this thread faithful to its purpose.
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Post by Bailey on Aug 7, 2018 2:06:13 GMT
kdcintx didn't say he was going to do a trial and I previously posted that I will and the reasons why, so I assumed your request to post a trial was mainly directed at me. Perhaps in the future it will be better if you make it clearer who you are directing requests to.
Your advice to Pete is inappropriate. Pete was very clear as to whom he was addressing his request.
Hi sepiana,
unfortunately it wasn't clear to me and in fairness to Peter I posted why it wasn't clear to me. I can't be any fairer than that.
If in your opinion it was clear, I have no issue with that
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