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Post by michelb on Feb 21, 2024 14:53:04 GMT
I am a bit late... I found an interesting comparison on the closed dpreview forum. Another view from the Adobe PS forums:
Keep in mind that both formats are under Adobe's control as Adobe owns the copyright for the tiff format bought from Aldus if I remenber well. I have also read discussions where PS gurus preferred the tiff format.
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Post by michelb on Jan 29, 2024 13:02:03 GMT
Old faq from John E Ellis: To summarize: As there is no simple way to rearrange two catalogs (like in Lightroom) the first thing is to write the metadata to tags in the folders you want to join to your main catalog (the shortcut suggested by Buckskin is Ctrl W. Then you import from the main catalog from the selected folders. This will restore the most important data, keywords and categories, captions... but not organization features like albums, stacks or version sets.
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Post by michelb on Jan 28, 2024 18:43:37 GMT
Step #2 Your goal may be to have a clean and logical folder view or to have a logical categories and keywords structure covering all your managed photos with all the tools to find them from many criteria and to group them. Many users, especially with very big catalogs, are happy to manage that way without bothering with a clean looking explorer folders tree. Or you may expect both, which I perfectly understand. Obviously, you want to keep all useful available organization data in your drives, old catalogs and backup folders. If you want both ways at the same time (folder tree and catalog), that will be harder and longer. My own advice would be to start with retrieving the available data in your different sources, drive locations and backups. I don't use automatic tagging myself, but Greg_S in the other forum does. That means that if you succeed in grouping all the relevant folders, you can import in bulk in a new catalog, and let the organizer retrieve the tags already written to the photo files themselves and add the automatic tagging, including face recognition and geotagging. Not a clean result for folders, but it will be possible to start a second process to clean up the global structure later from the organizer, which will be a long task. Otherwise, it seems logical to start with first retrieving each backup, writing catalog tags to the files themselves to retrieve most of the past organization. You will have both the folders tree mess and different catalogs to merge, which is not easy to do. That seems to be feasible in your case.
By the way, since working with catalogs can be done without altering the files themselves, it would be quite possible to use both above solutions without losing anything. A global bulk import and automatic tagging, and the job of restoring and updating catalogs before merging and cleaning the catalogs and folders.
Now, I suppose that the next step in the current discussion will be to cover more detailes issues: - how to clean up the folder tree from the organizer - how to restore backups and where, how to merge the result - what's the reason of the way explorer and organizer work - How to 'merge' restores - and so on.
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Post by michelb on Jan 28, 2024 16:22:50 GMT
So, looking at your questions, there are two kinds of things to explain and for which to suggest suggestions. - Why has the folder structure become so complicated and not understandable? - What is the ultimate goal to make things simple and logical?
That calls for many long explanations and partial solutions which will be difficult to describe in a single conversation. I'll try to find a way to start with simple and basic facts to help us define a more detailed description of what you are expecting. Then we'll try to see what should be done and especially in which order. Sorry if I am beginning with very basic facts.
The key issue here is the fundamental difference between what is the difference in how the explorer and the organizer are seeing folder trees.
The Explorer offers a way to "store" your digital files (programs, data, photos...) in a hierarchical folder trees structure. That structure includes pre-defined "system" groups like programs, users, pictures, documents... and you are free to create your own personal structure (for instance by dates) within or outside the pre-defined Windows folders. The goal is to make you think the files are stored in various spaces of a filing cabinet.
The Organizer is working mainly with a CATALOG. I have been working in logistics, so I am very familiar with the way items are stored in warehouses. Some very simple warehouses work with dedicated spaces for each item category, most use catalogs in the form of big databases. The management is not defined by the location of different items. The catalog records which alley, level and individual storing place. Similar references are NOT stored together, but apparently randomly (handling optimization). The catalog in the organizer is just like the booklet catalog you get for a museum. It offers lists of data about each art piece, location, author, description... A catalog could be a simple spreadsheet, a paper notebook... For instance you might have a notebook to write where and how your wine botlles are kept in your cellar.
The Explorer and each catalog have to work together.
The catalogs are built around a different and totally free hierarchical logical structure: for instance Years > months > days >author... The catalogs must also understand and work with the Explorer hierarchy. Each photo registered in the catalog with the path used in the explorer to access and manage the item. As the organizer is built to offer many additional services to the Explorer, it is necessary for the catalog to be able to display the folder structure of the Explorer and to access the features available in the explorer: move, rename, delete among others. Nearly all the management available in the Explorer is replicated in the organizer. It works by sending orders to the OS to apply its own orders.
I'll make a stop here to emphasize that the display of folders in the organizer is meant to display only the registered files in the catalog. The folders and files shown in the tree view of the organizer will display empty files only if the empty folders have empty subfolders or if you use the option to display all folders under a given folder.
For clarity, I'll continue in another post, bear with me and don't hesitate to repeat detailed questions.
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Post by michelb on Jan 28, 2024 14:14:02 GMT
Hi Ronan, Just to say I had not much time to answer last week, but I have also seen your discussion in the Adobe Elements forum. I need to take the time to better understand your requirements, but my goal is to answer your questions in both forums !
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Post by michelb on Jan 12, 2024 8:26:13 GMT
That old option was created many years ago to allow organizing (tagging...) your files and updating the catalog when the media (CDs mainly) were not available / plugged in the computer. I don't think anybody uses it today. A reduced size of each photo is stored on the computer in a bigger size than the tiny thumbnail size (max 320 pixels...) to allow previewing more comfortablys without the true originals on the CDs.
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Post by michelb on Sept 1, 2023 7:46:42 GMT
Sorry to be late to answer, I am just back from vacation...
"Offline media" are indeed media which have been imported (voluntarily or not...) by using the option "Get files from files and folders" instead of "Get files from camera or card reader" with files on removable media such as cards or DVDs AND using the option to generate previews instead of "copy files on import".
That option was useful twenty years ago when disk space was scarse and it was common to store photo files only on removable media you had to plug in when needed. The previews allowed managing the files in the organizer but not editing them. My bet is that today it's only a legacy feature used by user error when downloading. Note that external drives are not considered as removable media. If they are not plugged in, the files are considered "missing", not "offline" and you don't get the option to generate preview as with cards or thumb sticks.
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Post by michelb on Aug 7, 2023 9:26:05 GMT
Photoshop Elements 2021 Organizer I seemed to have made a massive booboo. I was trying to "clean up" my hard disk usage. Too many disks holding various bits of data; the rest of the data is Ok; no catalogues! However I forgot that I had "temporary" added a hard disk to a caddy; caddy is hidden behind second screen. As a result I now have only a few of the latest uploaded images pointed to the correct hard disk in Organizer, H:Drive. Most of 2023 images are now pointed to K: drive. Prior to that to pointed to D:Drive. H:Drive does contain all the images as does K:Drive. The file structures are identical. However D:Drive does not; D;Drive now holds all my User files. I know I should have moved everything around from within Organizer; mea culpa! Is it possible the replace the K in the catalogue with H and the D with H? Any help appreciated
Hi athegen,
I am trying to understand what you did. I take it that at first, you had all your media files in a single drive, D. Now, you have three drives registered in the catalog; D, H and K. I also suppose that D is a local drive and that H an K are two distinct external drives. You don't mention explicitly if at some time you made a copy of your media folders trees from D to one of those H and K drives outside of the organizer and if there was a change in the way Windows assigned drive letters to the external drives.
There is no magical tool in the organizer toolkit to change (replace) the drive letter by another one.
The way the catalog is structured to keep the location and identification of drives is NOT built on drive letters, because of the way Windows internally recognizes drives. For instance, you know that when you you plug in your good old D drive while a new device has been plugged in and also assigned the D letter because it was the lowest letter available at that moment, your old D drive now will be assigned the letter E or above... So, since the organizer was built on a sqlite database engine (circa PSE6), the catalog has to recognize drives in a constant way by another disk property which is the internal serial number of the drive.
In the database structure, there is a 'volume' table storing the identification of a drive and its properties. Like any item in the database (media, tag...) there is an internal (never displayed) numerical catolog item number. The properties show three ways to identify a drive: the internal serial number read by Windows when the disk is accessed the first time, the drive letter and the drive name you can assign and modify yourself.
Also in that database structuve there is a media table storing the properties of each single photo or video. The property 'location on disk' is divided in two parts: identification of the disk, pointing to the PSE internal number in the 'volume table' abobe. The index search finds the correct item from the serial number of the disk and returns the drive letter. The second part is the full path you are use are yourself to specify a location in the folders/subfolders tree. The organizer concatenates the drive letter and the path. When you look at the location of a picture in the properties panel on the right of the display, that's what is shown. You have NO way to search by drive letter in the organizer, bu you can display your folders tree in the left folders panel in tree mode.
So, what can you do to change drive letters and identification in the organizer?
- Windows lets you assign a new letter which will be recognized and stay 'sticky' afterwards independently from available free lettters. More 'techy': you can assign freely a new internal number.
- If you are acquainted with database management, you can browse / fiddle directly with the contents of the database. - The changes using Windows may also need using the programming calculator to convert hexadecimal data to decimal.
To summarize, once we can be sure of what was your exact workflow and what happened in which order in your three drives, I can try to suggest ways to solve your problem at least partly.
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Post by michelb on Apr 20, 2023 8:23:40 GMT
If the correct explanations from Buckskin and Sepiana don't fully answer your question, I suppose you mean how and where the links (=shortcuts?= to the location of each photo/video are stored.
- that location information as well as other data coming from your camera (exif) or your own tagging is stored in a catalog, more precisely in the main component of the catalog, a sqlite database file named catalog.pse21db for PSE2023. - The location by default of this folder is a given by Sepiana. You find that location from the help menu of the organizer in the 'System Information'. - The database is the main component to store most of the information in your catalog. The folder contains many other files and subfolders, for instance the thumbnail cache thumb.5.cache. - The inner organization of the database is not easy to access. You need a management/reader of the sqlite engine, some knowledge of the sqlite language and the internal organization of the database which is accessible only by Adobe.
Screenshots:
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Post by michelb on Apr 17, 2023 8:04:45 GMT
Moving a PSE Catalog is a whole separate exercise in itself and unless an IT person knows how to handle PSE, it won't get done correctly. - Windows 10 isn't going away yet. Microsoft is advertising October 2025 for retirement. By that time, if you are still running Windows 10 and aren't able to upgrade, it is time for a new computer. - I agree with buckskin that running your operating system and programs on the c:\ drive and having a separate drive for data (photos, documents, etc.) is a great way to go if you can Andy, I totally agree with everything you said. About moving the organizer catalog and storing your data on a separate drive, it's indeed a separate exercise, but it's probably the easier part of the global move. And choosing to store Data on a different drive is a must. Even without migrating to a new computer AND/OR a new OS version, I have always recommended storing the catalog and the restored media files folders on an external drive. That's what I have done for years. Everything is now on a 1 tb SSD USB drive. I only have to plug in the very small drive to any of my computers to have everything immediately available. If I have to migrate to a new computer, new OS version and even new PSE version, I am safe and I can even use everything on another computer while I take the time to reinstall everything on the new computer. Doing this transfer to a new drive via backup and restore is all you need and can be done now, no need to wait for the new computer to be ready. See the organizer tips in this forum dedicated section.
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Post by michelb on Apr 14, 2023 19:11:42 GMT
I also decided to upgrade to Windows 11. Some of my programs were missing, none of my shortcuts worked, my links to my favorite Web sites were gone and some of my passwords did not work. All my add-0n to Elements 2023 were non functional and worst all, my entire Organizer was empty. popcorn and michelb , I upgraded one of my computers (the workhorse one) to Windows 11 Pro. No problems whatsoever! Each and every Elements version I have is working flawlessly (13 versions!!!). The same holds true of my CC apps -- Photoshop, Lightroom Classic, and Bridge -- as well as of all the non-Adobe apps. As to the Organizer? No issues to report. Everything is working as it should. Thanks Sepiana, My own problem with the Win 11 update is that my 4 old computers don't meet the new requirements. And that would be a problem anyway without the OS change. From what I see in the Adobe Elements forum, there are a lot of users asking before upgrading, and getting mainly positive testimonies as yours. It's a bit tricker for Mac users asking a bit too late!
I have migrated to new computers a number of times, and I have always taken the time to reinstall every software separately. Recently, I have considered only replacing my main drive by a big SSD one. I have studied various options including the cloning ones, but there is more to upgrade in my hardware than that.
I am very happy with my choice of storing all my files and catalogs on an external 1 Tb SSD drive. I would advise to move yours from your main computer like this with the organizer.
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Post by michelb on Apr 12, 2023 19:24:30 GMT
Hi Popcorn, I am also wondering about what I should do to update my ageing hardware and if I should migrate to Windows 11 at the same time. Your horror story and the comparison with the experience of your sister make me want to hear more comments and testimonials from other users of this forum. What I can say is that if you have still your old computer available, it's not too late to transfer your catalog(s) and photo/video file folder trees to your new computer using the backup and restore recommended process. I think that there are pros and cons for using cloning vs clean reinstall of each and every app. Cloning looks much easier and faster when you want to replicate a full config on a new similar hardware. That's what is used most frequently when changing you main drive by an equivalent SSD one. An old config with many softwares will benefit from a selective individual reinstall of all apps and clean up your cluttered hardware. I don't believe in using migrating softwares which never work with Adobe programs, especially the organizer.
You'll find lots of good info in this forum section about the organizer.
It is my understanding that many Windows users have been able to switch to Win 11 without major problems on their existing hardware. In my case, all my 3 computers (including my wife's) don't qualify for that upgrade... That suggests I should buy a new computer meeting the specs and reinstall every program one by one ?
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Post by michelb on Mar 27, 2023 16:48:57 GMT
Hi, Vicky, The problem is that the color settings dialog does no longer correctly work as before and as described in the text of the dialog since about 3 years in PSE. It's probably a good thing if what you want is to use sRGB by default which is the less disastrous solution to share images on totally different and uncalibrated conditions. However for more demanding users caring for covering wider color ranges and faithful sharing, there is a big bug. It's for users shooting raw, especially if they want to print accurately.
- raw files don't have a color space. - according to the dialog, if PSE opens a raw file in the ACR dialog, there is no menu to choose the color space like in the full Photoshop.
- On the other hand, while PSE can work with many color spaces internally, it can only convert from raw to either sRGB or aRGB. - So, to define your own choices, you have to set the color settings preference in the pixel editor as shown in your post.
And, there is the BUG... Whatever choice you choose in the dialog, you only get sRGB.
See that recent discussion in the Adobe Elements forum with the participation of the guru Andrew Rodney (The digital dog):
I have got news that the Adobe team is now aware of the bug. Will it be solved in PSE2024?
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Post by michelb on Feb 23, 2023 20:02:32 GMT
Another blue filter story ? I had a recent discussion with my ophtalmologist about the state of my growing cataract. Well, the surgery could be needed before the end of the current year. I complained about my recent experience when playing at Rummikub with my family. Our Rummikub sample offers the traditional four colours for the tiles: Black, Blue, Red and Orange. Bad luck, in most artificial lighting, I can't easily tell blue from black, especially under dim lighting. "No wonder", she said, "your cataract acts as a yellow filter". So, I totally agree with Clive, our problem as photographers is to correctly assess the white balance, knowing that after the surgery, we'll be back to our original, non blue filtered vision. In practice, I even resorted to use: - a much brighter room lighting, since the filtering is less important - different room light sources: LED sources have a fuller spectrum as fluorescent light, but they are sold mainly in 'warm' versions, 2700; 4000 Kelvin rather than 6500 K daylight. - small pocket LED lamps to check the real tones of the tiles (with their bright light, I think that the color perception of the cones in the retina works much better)
Now, until I get the cataract surgery, I don't trust my personal white balance perception. What I can do is: - to check my printed results in real daylight or similar artificial sources - to calibrate my display more frequently with my Spyder - to strongly ignore any gadget to filter blue. My cataract is protecting me !
Last word: Last sunday, my daughter invited us for a game of Rummikug. Surprise! She had just bought the latest flavour of the game: with bright CYAN tiles instead of blue ones.
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Post by michelb on Feb 18, 2023 8:10:48 GMT
I just tried that, and I get different results if I am in 'Detail view' or in 'adaptative view'. In the adaptative view (only images shown, no file name or date) the stack menu is greyed out like you. If I switch to 'adaptative view (from the view menu, Details - shortcut Ctrl D) then stack commands become available. I don't think it's a bug, but a tricky 'feature' not clearly explained in the organizer. Nothing related to your own setup. Bottom line: learn the Ctrl D shortcut to get to the detail view which is more comfortable to deal with stacks.
Edit: For your other question: I don't use the 'stack' option in the downloader. I only shoot raw, never raw + jpeg. Maybe someone who does has ideas?
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