Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 17:51:06 GMT
I came across this article today which talks about the bad rap Photoshop has been receiving recently. The author makes a case for using Photoshop (or any image editing software) and thinking of it as your digital darkroom, which is precisely how I think about editing software. Yes you can use this software to seriously modify your photographs and create great digital art, but first and foremost it should be seen as the digital replacement for the darkroom. As the author points out, and I agree with him, every photo benefits from some small tweaks in these programs and most professionals use them in that way. Whilst I agree that it is important to get the shot right in the camera in the first place and to learn the craft of photography, the darkroom still has a place in today's photography, albeit in a digital version. I don't believe that photos straight out of the camera are at their best, there is always room for improvement, even if it is just a little tweak here and there; and if you shoot in RAW digital development of that RAW file is an absolute must. Would love to hear people's thoughts and opinions on this subject.
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Madame
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Post by Madame on Aug 11, 2015 18:06:27 GMT
I think photoshopping are "banned" of those who don't know what it is. I use it all the time, but no one thinks I do. In fact most of the time I use Lightrooom, not Photoshop Elements. I use it to get the pictures to look like it really was.
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larry
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Post by larry on Aug 11, 2015 20:52:35 GMT
and if you shoot in RAW digital development of that RAW file is an absolute must. This is the only bit I disagree with. I shoot in RAW all the time and when conditions are ideal - photographing outdoors on a sunny day for example - occasionally I get a photo I am completely happy with. But granted, I'd say about 90% or so of my RAW photos benefit from minimal adjustments like tweaking white balance. In low light conditions, 100% of my photos benefit from slight adjustments to exposure, fill light etc. I use Adobe Camera Raw with Photoshop Elements.
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Post by jackscrap on Aug 11, 2015 22:47:10 GMT
Great article Simone, lots of interesting points for and against the use of photoshopping. I consider myself to be a 'lazy photographer' and never worry too much about getting something perfect SOOC, so having access to PSE and fiddling around with the images I take is just something I do for fun and for me, not to please or be competitive with anybody else out there. Life is too short to worry about being perfect. I think I take photos to collect memories for myself and my family, if I choose to enhance, or alter them in some way, it's because that's how I want that scene to be remembered.
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Post by Tpgettys on Aug 11, 2015 23:53:59 GMT
I used to struggle with this issue, but anymore it is very clear that the digital darkroom is every bit as necessary as the traditional one was to fully and honestly render a scene. There are no sensors that can capture an image as seen by the human eye, not even close for most scenes. The wide dynamic range that is often present and the "post-processing" done by our visual system is WAY beyond our technology to capture. So often I am quite disappointed by how an image looks on the screen compared to my memory of the scene, but the failing is in large measure the camera's sensor. A little or a lot of post-processing is necessary to compensate for it and recreate the mood and tone of the scene.
In the old days the technologies were only different; the photographer still "cheated" by choosing which film to use, which development process to use, which papers to use, where and how much to dodge & burn, etc. Pre- and Post-processing have always been part of the process. Sure, you can accept the default post-processing of the 1-hour machine at Walmart or the JPEG "SOOC", but that is only easy, not more honest.
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larry
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Post by larry on Aug 12, 2015 1:07:20 GMT
So often I am quite disappointed by how an image looks on the screen compared to my memory of the scene, but the failing is in large measure the camera's sensor. A little or a lot of post-processing is necessary to compensate for it and recreate the mood and tone of the scene. I used to feel the same way when I first started getting into photography. I took photos either in Auto mode or P mode with centre-weighted metering and I was wondering why I was spending 5-10 minutes post processing each photo to get it displaying what I saw as I saw it. At the time I didn't realise that the camera has no idea about what it is being aimed at. It just measures the light coming in but doesn't know what the scene is at all. A camera left to make its own decisions can easily be fooled, especially in tricky, non uniform light conditions. So I did some research and study into taking better photos SOOC. I researched the exposure triangle and how aperture, ISO and shutter speed relate to each other and their affects on exposure. I also researched how the camera meter works. I soon learned that a camera will try to convert all incoming light to 18% grey. Armed with new knowledge I then abandoned shooting in Auto, P or any of the other modes. I now shoot in manual mode 99% of the time, giving me total control over the settings and not letting the camera make decisions for me. The only time I now use shutter or aperture priority modes is when I am in a situation where I don't have time to set up everything properly, like a family event for example, and I have to point and shoot to minimise missing any important photo opportunity. For metering, I now look for an 18% grey or equivalent midtone in the scene and spot meter it to get my exposure settings. By correctly metering a scene and setting my own aperture, ISO and shutter speed in manual mode, I find that the vast majority of my photos are very close to reality SOOC and now I spend 1-2 minutes (absolute max) per photo tweaking it in Adobe Camera Raw and PSE.
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Post by cats4jan on Aug 12, 2015 1:44:06 GMT
I'm glad I have PSE to fix my lousy photos. I can take a half dozen photos of the same scene and still need post processing. I just don't have the interest to get better with the camera. I'd rather just tweak them after the fact.
I'm not a purest. It's no one's business if the photo comes out of the camera a certain way, or I make it that way with Photoshop's help. I am a "point and shoot" gal and proud of it.
The only time photoshopping should be an issue is if you are entering a contest. Then I feel messing with your photos is cheating.
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Post by Tpgettys on Aug 12, 2015 1:47:13 GMT
I find that the vast majority of my photos are very close to reality SOOC Hm, well, already that is a VERY subjective assessment, as reality exhibits contrast ranges that greatly exceed the ability of camera sensors to capture. The human eye can discriminate contrast ranges up to 1:10,000 all at once, but camera sensors can only capture dynamic ranges on the order of 1:400, so what is SOOC is nearly always a pale representation of reality for many typical scenes no matter what. An in-depth discussion of this can be found in the first chapter of "The HDRI Handbook" by Christian Block; it is well worth the effort. I found a PDF of the first edition online; the 2nd edition is available from Amazon for $28 as I recall.
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larry
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Post by larry on Aug 12, 2015 2:54:45 GMT
I find that the vast majority of my photos are very close to reality SOOC Hm, well, already that is a VERY subjective assessment, as reality exhibits contrast ranges that greatly exceed the ability of camera sensors to capture. The human eye can discriminate contrast ranges up to 1:10,000 all at once, but camera sensors can only capture dynamic ranges on the order of 1:400, so what is SOOC is nearly always a pale representation of reality for many typical scenes no matter what. Yes of course the human eye can cope with a much higher dynamic range than a camera. That goes without saying The point I was making is that if someone has an interest in and understands the concept of the exposure triangle and how to meter scenes correctly you can reduce your post processing time immensely. I have reduced my average post processing time from 5-10 minutes per photo down to 1-2 minutes per photo by researching how to get more things right "in camera" before taking a photo rather than "wasting time" post processing. The only time I now spend significant time post processing is when I want to create some sort of special effect. if people are happy to just point and shoot in Auto mode or use one of the other modes apart from manual, that is fine but I'm sure they will be spending relatively longer times post processing. If you like post processing a lot then it's not an issue. It just boils down to one's level of interest in how to take photos Personally, I don't want to spend too much time on each photo, especially when batch sizes can be anywhere from ~20 - ~150 photos.
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Post by Sydney on Aug 12, 2015 6:10:29 GMT
I tend to like images with a bit of saturated colour and high dynamic range that I have seen in magazines and photography websites (including PSE&M) and always wondered how I could achieve similar results given that my camera (Panasonic Lumix) doesn't come close to producing images like the ones I have admired. When I discovered PSE13 and Photomatix Pro I was blown away by how much these tools extended the range of what I could do. Once upon a time, so called serious photographers dismissed others who dared to shoot in colour, so go figure!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2015 13:08:42 GMT
and if you shoot in RAW digital development of that RAW file is an absolute must. This is the only bit I disagree with. I shoot in RAW all the time and when conditions are ideal - photographing outdoors on a sunny day for example - occasionally I get a photo I am completely happy with. But granted, I'd say about 90% or so of my RAW photos benefit from minimal adjustments like tweaking white balance. In low light conditions, 100% of my photos benefit from slight adjustments to exposure, fill light etc. I use Adobe Camera Raw with Photoshop Elements. I have to disagree with you there larry. I am yet to see a RAW files (mine or others) SOCC that didn't need at least a little tweaking. RAW files are usually duller and a little soft and always benefit from small adjustments to exposure, contrast, vibrance/saturation and a little sharpening as no in camera sharpening is applied as is the case with jpeg files. I guess we have to agree to disagree.
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Post by Peterj on Aug 13, 2015 14:19:40 GMT
I came across this article today which talks about the bad rap Photoshop has been receiving recently. The author makes a case for using Photoshop (or any image editing software) and thinking of it as your digital darkroom, which is precisely how I think about editing software. Yes you can use this software to seriously modify your photographs and create great digital art, but first and foremost it should be seen as the digital replacement for the darkroom. As the author points out, and I agree with him, every photo benefits from some small tweaks in these programs and most professionals use them in that way. Whilst I agree that it is important to get the shot right in the camera in the first place and to learn the craft of photography, the darkroom still has a place in today's photography, albeit in a digital version. I don't believe that photos straight out of the camera are at their best, there is always room for improvement, even if it is just a little tweak here and there; and if you shoot in RAW digital development of that RAW file is an absolute must. Would love to hear people's thoughts and opinions on this subject. I think the question is Photoshop a bad word is akin to is money bad ... IMO it's what is done with either of the two that's makes them bad or good. Many times what I think is "right" when capturing an image turns out not so right when viewing on my screen; or I missed the ugly piece of trash in the lower corner. I'm perfectly at ease using editing software to make my captured images more pleasing. I do think that photojournalists and media editors abuse the use of editing software to slant images in a particular way.
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Post by Sepiana on Aug 13, 2015 15:45:04 GMT
This is the only bit I disagree with. I shoot in RAW all the time and when conditions are ideal - photographing outdoors on a sunny day for example - occasionally I get a photo I am completely happy with. But granted, I'd say about 90% or so of my RAW photos benefit from minimal adjustments like tweaking white balance. In low light conditions, 100% of my photos benefit from slight adjustments to exposure, fill light etc. I use Adobe Camera Raw with Photoshop Elements. I have to disagree with you there larry. I am yet to see a RAW files (mine or others) SOCC that didn't need at least a little tweaking. RAW files are usually duller and a little soft and always benefit from small adjustments to exposure, contrast, vibrance/saturation and a little sharpening as no in camera sharpening is applied as is the case with jpeg files. I guess we have to agree to disagree. And I am in total agreement with you, Simone. That's why Raw files are usually referred to "digital negatives"; they contain unprocessed data from your camera.
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larry
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Post by larry on Aug 13, 2015 19:59:23 GMT
This is the only bit I disagree with. I shoot in RAW all the time and when conditions are ideal - photographing outdoors on a sunny day for example - occasionally I get a photo I am completely happy with. But granted, I'd say about 90% or so of my RAW photos benefit from minimal adjustments like tweaking white balance. In low light conditions, 100% of my photos benefit from slight adjustments to exposure, fill light etc. I use Adobe Camera Raw with Photoshop Elements. I have to disagree with you there larry. I am yet to see a RAW files (mine or others) SOCC that didn't need at least a little tweaking. RAW files are usually duller and a little soft and always benefit from small adjustments to exposure, contrast, vibrance/saturation and a little sharpening as no in camera sharpening is applied as is the case with jpeg files. I guess we have to agree to disagree. yep, no problem , since I started to use the metering method I described earlier (spot metering an 18% grey or equivalent) the exposure and colors in just about all my photos immediately were spot on or very close to spot on SOOC resulting in much less post processing time (1-2 mins/photo max. now). Admittedly, the few occasions where I haven't needed any post processing of my RAW file almost always includes the use of a tripod and shooting at the lens' "sweet spot". I find that using any of the other metering modes (center-weighted, evaluative etc) increases the chances of the exposure being more off than if using spot metering because they give more weight to the camera in making the exposure setting and camera meters can be fooled by tricky non-uniform lighting conditions.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2015 20:17:02 GMT
I think the question is Photoshop a bad word is akin to is money bad ... IMO it's what is done with either of the two that's makes them bad or good. Many times what I think is "right" when capturing an image turns out not so right when viewing on my screen; or I missed the ugly piece of trash in the lower corner. I'm perfectly at ease using editing software to make my captured images more pleasing. I do think that photojournalists and media editors abuse the use of editing software to slant images in a particular way. Pete, I couldn't agree more. Photoshop has gotten a bad name mainly due to its in-proper use in the media.
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