Extracting Portions of Images

Jun 28, 2016 12:49:34 GMT tangomike said:

I began with the Polygonal Lasso and it remains my tool of choice, probably by default more than for any other reason. I often find it to be very time-consuming, which is acceptable if the results are satisfactory, but recently I've run into an intermittent problem that's very confusing because I can't figure out what's happening.

For the record: Mac OS 10.11. with PSE 14 and Elements+. For an example, let's say I'm extracting an airplane (lots of angles and small details I want to capture in the selection) from a background that has lots of detail as well. I zoom in close and get far enough around the airplane to have spent a good bit of time on it, and suddenly the point I've just clicked instantly joins the starting point with a marching ants outline that is nothing like I want. I can't figure out why it's happening or how to recover without starting over.

Hi Tosh,

I almost spilled my coffee when I read this.  What you are describing is the famous (infamous?) Jumping Lasso Syndrome. I believe it appeared in Elements 10 and it involved mainly the Lasso tool. I don't remember having seen it reported in more recent versions of Elements. Neither do I remember having seen it reported on a Mac.

You start your selection. Everything is going well. Then, all of a sudden, the Lasso tool seems to "jump", the marching ants disappear temporarily, and, when they reappear, your selection is completed. Unfortunately, it is not the selection you had in mind.

A fix was posted in the Adobe Photoshop Elements forum which involved running Elements in compatibility mode for your OS. It worked for me and for those to whom I suggested this workaround in the now-closed Elements Village forum. Unfortunately, this workaround was for Windows users. Is there a way to run Elements in compatibility mode on a Mac like we do on Windows?

I would also strongly suggest you post in the Adobe Feedback forums and report this issue.

feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/categories/photoshop_family_photoshop_elements

Jun 28, 2016 12:49:34 GMT tangomike said:

Another question is whether there are better tools for this task, and also if those more knowledgeable in the finer points of PSE choose different methods when defining a portion of an image based on the particular type of image and background you are working with.

I am always leery about suggesting a selection tool without seeing the nature of the image one is working with. As you have already learnt, there is more than one way to accomplish something in Elements. And, when it comes to selections, there are so many options. As a rule of thumb, . . .

Lasso tool -- Great to make loose selections, the kind I call "rough" and which you intend to clean up later on.

Magnetic Lasso -- Great for extracting objects with well-defined edges and lots of contrast between it and the background.  Try this tool on an object with fuzzy edges (furry animals, flyaway hair, etc.) and it will be a different story. You are not going to get much out of this tool in the latter situation.

Polygonal Lasso -- It is similar to the Magnetic Lasso because it also puts down "anchor" points but the difference is that it creates segments which are perfectly straight lines. It has an advantage over the Magnetic Lasso though.  It is not so "temperamental" and it is easier to keep under control.

One alternative (depending on the object being extracted) is to use more than one of these Lasso tools during your selection, i.e., to switch from one to another.

I myself use another selection tool in about 99.99% of my projects -- the Quick Selection tool (A). Why? Because I don't have to worry about if my object has well-defined edges, fuzzy edges, or doesn't "stick out" from the background. This tool can tackle it all and does an excellent job in the process. Then, couple it with the "deluxe" Refine Edge Adobe brought over from Photoshop starting with Elements 11 and  . . . it is just what the doctor ordered.

The key to the success of your project is to start with a clean and well-defined selection. However, just making a selection is not enough. You need to fine-tune your selection before you place it on a new background. That’s where the Refine Edge command comes into play. It will allow you to remove the jagged edges around your selection (Smooth slider); soften the edges (Feather); and adjust the size of the selection (Shift Edge). Also, the Output section in the Refine Edge dialog gives you the choice of having your selection on its own layer, on its own layer with a mask added, etc.

NOTE:  If you use the Quick Selection tool, this tool has an Auto-Enhance setting in the Options bar. If you turn it on, Elements will automatically smooth your selection edges. However, you will have more flexibility and will get better results if you use Refine Edge as this option allows you to tweak your selection edges.

Making Killer Selections

Tosh,

I am going to try to address more than one issue in one single post.

Jun 28, 2016 22:27:14 GMT tangomike said:

1. ken1: I'll do that next time, thanks.

First of all, don't feel obliged to fulfill requests to post your images so that we can target our advice. As you mentioned in another thread, you design "covers for eBooks and paperbacks for myself, friends, and a few clients".  Depending on what kind of agreement (contract) you have with your clients, it may not be appropriate to do so. You are the one who knows best. We all should understand and accept if you cannot fulfill such a request.

Jun 28, 2016 22:27:14 GMT tangomike said:

Then I went searching again and found a tutorial specific to 14 and realized that tool operation had changed relative to the previous version.

This caught me by surprise. I had no idea the Adobe Designing Team had made some changes in the way this tool operates in Elements 14. I have both Elements 13 and 14 and I never noticed anything.  I will do some checking into this.

Jun 28, 2016 22:27:14 GMT tangomike said:

Using Quick Selection, I get it as close as I can and then refine the edges without changing tools. Using a combination of getting in close and adjusting the size of the tool, I discovered that gentle nudges from inside and outside the selection could adjust the boundary in small increments to define almost exactly what I wanted. Then I saved the selection so I could get back to it if need be, and switched to Refine Selection for smoothing.

After doing that with the image of a jetliner against a blue sky and white cloud background, I tried it on an image of a platform diver's face in the middle of a dive with long, damp hair splayed out all around it. There was no way to select all the detail, so I left the quick selection rough and then used Refine Selection against a white background and wow.

I haven't yet had the opportunity to absorb your replies in the depth I want, but this is exactly what I needed.

Glad to hear the Quick Selection tool is exactly what you needed.

You are doing exactly what one should be doing with flyaway hair. You don't have to be so precise and select all the hair detail. All you have to do is get the whole selection as close as possible without worrying about the hair edges. As you already figured out, once you bring up Refine Edge, you can drag the Radius slider (Edge Detection) and you will see more hair being picked up and included in your selection. And, if you see some gray around the edges of the hair, just put the Refine Radius tool (brush) to work. Make sure you use a brush size which will cover the entire radius of the flyaway hair.  Then, just paint around the edges of the hair. You can paint with one long brush stroke going around the entire head or you can apply smaller brush strokes concentrating in a smaller area.

TIP:

In the "Output To" section, select "New Layer with Layer Mask". This will enable you to further fine-tune the edges of your selection. For example, if you notice there is still a halo/fringe around your selection when you place it on a new background, you can take advantage of the layer mask to get rid of it.  Use a soft brush, Color = Black, Mode = Overlay.  Paint over that pesky halo/fringe and you will see it disappear into thin air.

Jun 29, 2016 2:54:45 GMT tangomike said:

I think the explanation might be that the tutorial missed a step, or maybe I did, but after the Quick selection tool, it appeared that the Refine Selection Brush was used to push the boundaries and adjust the selection while viewing the marching ants. But when I selected that tool, the marching ants disappeared and I couldn't use the Push Selection option to do the fine-tuning I saw in the video. That's also when I noticed that the tutorial used 13 up to the end of that demonstration, then switched to 14 to show how Refine Selection could be used to bring out the detail in hair.

Tosh,

I did some testing using Elements 13 and 14.  The Quick Selection tool and Refine Edge behaved the same way in both versions. Without having seen the tutorial you are talking about, I am going out on a limb here. It looks like the View Mode in the Refine Edge dialog was set to Marching Ants (M). Then, when you adjust the boundaries of your selection by dragging the Shift Edge slider, the marching ants will not disappear. You will see them moving in and out (contracting/expanding) as you move the slider left and right.

Jun 29, 2016 2:54:45 GMT tangomike said:

Thanks again for the help. I have a Word document with lessons learned, and there's a section with the heading "Sepiana Says:'

You are most welcome!  You made me laugh! Now I'd better watch what I say.

Tosh,

You were clear enough in your explanation. I was the one who missed the boat. My apologies!

We are talking about two different selection tools -- the Quick Selection tool and the Refine Selection Brush tool. (My mind was on the Refine Edge feature.) The Refine Selection Brush is a new tool, introduced by Adobe in Elements 13. It is designed to help you tweak difficult selections. I haven't used this tool too much because I still prefer the combo of the Quick Selection tool with Refine Edge. As a matter of fact, I also favor this combo when I use Photoshop CC.

I am going to do some more testing with the Selection Brush tool. I will let you know the results.