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Post by michelb on May 9, 2018 20:58:19 GMT
I just finished a recent big editing and organizing job. The project : a visit with two of our grandchildren (11 and 14) to a very interesting park not far from Paris : La France miniature. www.franceminiature.fr/enOne day to discover about 117 miniatures of the most famous monuments and places throughout France. I lent my small Panatomic to Matteo, and I only took my single lens Fuji X100. He shoots jpeg, I shoot only raw (32 MB...). I took care to also shoot the information boards for most of the monuments. The result of the shooting session: about 350 photos each of us (nearly 9GB) My goal was to : Convert and edit all raw files to jpeg full size in version sets Edit and save most of the jpegs into version sets Group version sets as stacks for each monument or place item Add keywords and captions matching the descriptions in the Park plan. Organizing those version sets into an album with the item numbers of the plan for 'custom' album order. That album structure is flexible enough to display either the best (« top of stack ») picture of each stack - or - all the « expanded » files in those stacks depending on my possible ulterior purposes (slideshow, book printing or web gallery). Now that this is done, I realize that I have had to use nearly all the classical tools of the Organizer, keywords, captions, ratings, version sets and stacks, album and custom order. The job did not require anything special about people nor places, and all the photos were a single event. I had to make choices between possible strategies and to solve unexpected problems like correcting the DST time which I had omitted to apply to both cameras ; or flattening the version sets of my pictures of the information boards not to waste space in keeping the raws. The project relies heavily on the use of versions sets (not a problem) and stacks to group all the files for each park item. Using the same sort order in the final album as the one in the Park plan was an obvious choice. My arbitrary choices : I did consider renaming the files to match the captions in the park plan. There are pros and cons, finally I did not rename. How to use keywords and captions ? Based on the extraordinary power of the latest organizer version, I have chosen to create and apply only a single keyword « France Miniature » in my 'My events' subcategory (not the new tab). I only chose to create a caption to be applied to each items of the stack matching the park boards captions. With the new search tool I can instantly find all items matching a part (substring) of the caption, the item number, the place, the category (Château, Cathédrale, Village...) For this job, I have found that I have to stack all files first. Then I 'expand' each stack, select all items and apply the caption. Then I collapse the stack. It's also possible to use the menu to 'expand' all stacks or to 'collapse' them whether I am in Folders or Album mode. I must not forget to use the Ctrl W - Write metadata to files. One dilemma was about the photo of the park information board : should it be the 'top of stack' or not ? Should it be separate from the photos stack itself ? Considering the possible future uses, I simply included them inside the stacks. Now, I can find instantly any file from any criteria in the captions as explained above. I can view the whole album in the custom order, with the stacks collapsed or not. I can create instant slideshows (F11) or the available slideshow themes. I can export the album in a format and size suitable for Web (preferably renaming the output files). I could easily export formated files to include in Premiere Elements if I had it. I could also export for Lightroom or other software to create an html Web gallery . I would be ready to create a book with a page for each stack... A final note about safety : needless to say, I saved my catalog and library after each step and session in the job. My choice is to use Microsoft Synctoy to Sync both the catalogs and the library folder tree. The organizer full backup will follow now that the album is ready. |
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Post by Bailey on May 10, 2018 2:51:04 GMT
Hi michelb,
I am a huge fan of the PSE Organiser. I don't use it's features as extensively as you do, but it ticks all the boxes for the features I need and like.
I mainly use just keywords and multiple levels of keyword subcategories as required to catalogue my files. That allows me to easily find photos for specific events, dates or whatever for exporting to Premiere Elements to include in a video or anywhere else.
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Post by Sepiana on May 10, 2018 4:02:30 GMT
I just finished a recent big editing and organizing job. The project : a visit with two of our grandchildren (11 and 14) to a very interesting park not far from Paris : La France miniature. www.franceminiature.fr/enOne day to discover about 117 miniatures of the most famous monuments and places throughout France. I lent my small Panatomic to Matteo, and I only took my single lens Fuji X100. He shoots jpeg, I shoot only raw (32 MB...). I took care to also shoot the information boards for most of the monuments. The result of the shooting session: about 350 photos each of us (nearly 9GB) My goal was to : Convert and edit all raw files to jpeg full size in version sets Edit and save most of the jpegs into version sets Group version sets as stacks for each monument or place item Add keywords and captions matching the descriptions in the Park plan. Organizing those version sets into an album with the item numbers of the plan for 'custom' album order. That album structure is flexible enough to display either the best (« top of stack ») picture of each stack - or - all the « expanded » files in those stacks depending on my possible ulterior purposes (slideshow, book printing or web gallery). Now that this is done, I realize that I have had to use nearly all the classical tools of the Organizer, keywords, captions, ratings, version sets and stacks, album and custom order. The job did not require anything special about people nor places, and all the photos were a single event.
Michel,
What a mammoth of a job! You definitely put the Organizer to work. Thanks for sharing your expertise with us! This information will undoubtedly help users of the Organizer (particularly new ones); it shows what the Organizer can do.
The Organizer has come a long way, hasn't it?
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Post by michelb on May 10, 2018 7:02:33 GMT
Hi michelb, I am a huge fan of the PSE Organiser. I don't use it's features as extensively as you do, but it ticks all the boxes for the features I need and like. I mainly use just keywords and multiple levels of keyword subcategories as required to catalogue my files. That allows me to easily find photos for specific events, dates or whatever for exporting to Premiere Elements to include in a video or anywhere else. Hi Bailey, I totally understand you choice. The very strong advantage of the Organizer is that even old versions offer the main tools to organize efficiently like you are doing (like I was doing recently). My purpose in describing this job was to clarify and offer practical samples of what one can do with keywords, captions, albums, stacks and version sets. Note that for beginners, those features suppose that the idea of catalogs be correctly understood; that's the prerequisite for happy use of the Organizer. My other purpose was to suggest that the new search feature may change your workflow drastically. In a way, the ability to find files by 'text search', from any keyword, any part of a caption, is identical to the 'Google' searches everybody uses everyday. The search engine look into keywords, persons and parts of captions or notes for you. In my project, this has led me to spare the creation of hundreds of keywords. The caption does store the necessary info. I can retrieve my search choice more rapidly than in navigating in a keywords hierarchy tree. Another example: if I want to store the name of a group shot of 50 persons, I can do it in a note. No need to create 50 keywords. The purpose of stacks is not really obvious except for burst shots or as a substitute for version sets. It's often better to use keywords or albums. In this case it enables a dual way to display the items: collapsed (best shot) or expanded for an item or whole items. Good for showing various angles of a monument as well as the information board. Renaming files: in my project, that would have required a lot more work. I have preferred to rely on captions. Renaming in exporting the final output for a project while keeping the custom sort order of the album is my choice. I have not tried the new 'smart tagging' feature, but I really believe it will help a lot of new users starting with an existing big library. I have not tried the |
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Post by michelb on May 10, 2018 7:14:22 GMT
Michel,
The Organizer has come a long way, hasn't it?
Sepiana, As I answered Bailey, any old version of the Organizer is already a strong tool for organization. The new features are worth trying! I don't know how I would have handled the project in Lightroom. |
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Post by Bailey on May 11, 2018 5:14:46 GMT
Hi Bailey, I totally understand you choice. The very strong advantage of the Organizer is that even old versions offer the main tools to organize efficiently like you are doing (like I was doing recently). ... Thank you michelb, My first version of PSE was v7 and back then I liked the Organiser very much because of its power and still use it pretty much the same way today. Up till now I have used albums to group photos that I will print and/or use in a video project (Premiere Elements). I also use version sets for photos that have been cropped to a paper size for printing. But the way you used captions is interesting and has given me food for thought and got me thinking  . I will have a play with them to see how I can use them to make my catalogue searchable in a similar way to a "Google search" as you mentioned. |
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Post by Sepiana on May 11, 2018 5:20:04 GMT
Michel,
The Organizer has come a long way, hasn't it?
Sepiana, As I answered Bailey, any old version of the Organizer is already a strong tool for organization. The new features are worth trying! I don't know how I would have handled the project in Lightroom.
Michel, I quite agree. The new features are definitely something to call home about.
I have been using the new search feature quite a lot; it is amazing how it changed my workflow. On the other hand, I have not tried Smart Tags or Auto-curate. Maybe, . . . one of these days.
Interesting you mentioned Lightroom. I was wondering the same thing. How would one handle such a project in Lightroom?
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Post by michelb on May 11, 2018 11:27:31 GMT
Interesting you mentioned Lightroom. I was wondering the same thing. How would one handle such a project in Lightroom?
I am also interested on comments about such tasks in Lightroom; I have had Lightroom for years and I also have a CC subscription (Adobe courtesy for my participating in their forums as ACP). I don't use them for my personal work, only to keep uptodate and perhaps answer questions relative to LR, Photoshop or Bridge. The result is that even if I do know how they work, I totally lack practicing them. You know, the best tool is the one you are used to...
In such a project, there are two sides for the comparison: - how to manage the project (ease of use, efficient workflow)
- how to achieve the expected result.
I just converted my whole catalog to LR including the albums with its stacks and version sets. My first question is: is it possible to get the same flexibility to display the album in custom order, with or without the stacks collapsed? I can't manage that, and I believe it's because in LR, stacks are 'second class' citizens, as John R Ellis says in his faqs. That's critical for me in this case.
About how to use the album for ulterior projects: exports, slideshows, books. LR can do anything the Organizer does, plus customizable slideshows and web html galleries. It also allows to split and merge catalogs, making sharing easier. The mobile LR app will also help to share.
For managing the project itself, at first glance it seems that both solutions are equally efficient. For me, being able to do everything even on a low or medium specs computer is a huge plus in favour of Elements. I keep the advange of batch editing my raws in ACR (preparation on my current medium spec PC, copy via backup and restore to a second low spec PC in another country home). The advantage of using captions instead of keywords with the smart search: I don't know if there is an equivalent feature in LR?
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Post by Bailey on May 12, 2018 0:53:20 GMT
Last night I played around with adding captions, as you described, for the purpose of being able to do google type searches in my photos in the future. I can see now that using captions this way is a great idea and I will definitely be adding captions to photos in the future. It's means only slightly more work in the initial cataloguing process, but the ability to add a caption to a batch of selected photos saves an immense amount of time.
The way I see it, unless I am missing something, the concepts of stacks and version sets in the Organiser's database data model are very similar. I don't envisage using stacks much at all but will continue to use version sets to group original photos with those I crop to a paper size for printing. But I do have one query still. Earlier you mentioned: ... In a way, the ability to find files by 'text search', from any keyword, any part of a caption, is identical to the 'Google' searches everybody uses everyday. ... The image on the right is the drop down menu under "Find" in my PSE 14. I can see how to use text string searches on Captions for images, but not for keywords.It's not a deal breaker by any means because my keyword structure is fairly logical (at least to me  ) and I have always been able to find images from my keywords very quickly, but if I can text search keywords as well as captions, it would be a really nice bonus. |
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Post by michelb on May 12, 2018 10:56:16 GMT
When I say the new test search, I don't mean the 'Search by details' menu, I mean the search you can access via the magnifier glass icon on the top right of the screen.
If you enter the search criteria in the top search bar, you don't even have to select a type of search in the left vertical media types icon. The full caption is: 15 - Basilique Notre-Dame-de-la -Garde à Marseille / Bouches-du-Rhône
I wanted to combine search for 'basilique' and 'Maseille'
It's worth spending some time to learn that new search mode. The search page is accessible by touch sreens. warning: once the search is complete, don't forget to click the back arrow to get back in the normal display with the found files.
see 'Using enhanced search'.
Or in the new Organizer pdf help, page 136
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Post by Bailey on May 13, 2018 0:26:49 GMT
Thank you for pointing me in the right direction michelb To be honest, I have never experimented with the search text box before  as I have always so far been able to locate photos very quickly using keywords.. This is the first time I have had a close look at it, and it's amazing. I'm assuming I don't see the icons on the left that you showed because I am using PSE 14. The figure on the right shows the drop down menu I see when I enter a text string in the search text box. This advanced search is absolutely amazing. By default it will search the filename, caption, notes and author data fields for the search string I enter. If I want to search just one data field I simply click the data field I want to search. Well, you have now given me a nice "fill in" job . Slowly, I am going to go through my catalogue and add meaningful captions to appropriate photos so I can then in the future search them using the Google like Advanced Search in the Organiser. (This will also be an opportunity to cull some photos as well.) Thank you again for this thread michelb. I have always thought of the Organiser as powerful tool. Now I see it as a complete and extremely powerful Organiser and search engine. |
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Post by Sepiana on May 13, 2018 0:53:17 GMT
I am also interested on comments about such tasks in Lightroom; I have had Lightroom for years and I also have a CC subscription (Adobe courtesy for my participating in their forums as ACP). I don't use them for my personal work, only to keep uptodate and perhaps answer questions relative to LR, Photoshop or Bridge. The result is that even if I do know how they work, I totally lack practicing them. You know, the best tool is the one you are used to...
Michel,
First of all, very pleased to see Adobe rewarding your knowledge/expertise and your ACP status. Well deserved!!! You are an asset to them as well as to this forum. We are lucky to have you here with us.
I started with Lighroom 5 and 6 and moved up to the CC version. However, I didn’t really use the Library module to its full potential until I got the CC version. Before I pretty much confined my learning/practicing to the Development module. Unfortunately, this resulted in my present situation -- still finding my way around when it comes to catalog management.
I am not sure this is a good idea but I maintain two catalogs: Lightroom -- for my personal work and the Organizer -- for work related to this forum (troubleshooting, answering questions, etc.)
I struggle with that too. Maybe it is just me but I find the stacks feature in Lightroom to have a few quirks. Unless one is aware of them and of the workaround needed, the whole experience can be a source of frustration.
I believe in this area Lightroom has the upper hand; it is definitely many notches above the Organizer. However, in my case, I don’t really have the need for lots of customization and/or for the variety of services it offers. The bottom line is, depending on one’s needs and interests, the Organizer is a better option -- much easier to use (and much faster).
I am getting to the same conclusion. The variable which seems to make a difference is the computer specs. In the end, it is all a matter of which solution you feel comfortable with and which one will make your workflow easier and more effective. |
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Post by Bailey on May 13, 2018 4:05:19 GMT
Wow, this is getting even better Reading through the manual at the other end of the link michelb posted helpx.adobe.com/pdf/elements-organizer_reference.pdf I see on page 145 I assume the manual is for the latest version of PSE but I can use the the above logical operators in my PSE 14. This makes the Organiser's Advanced Search function even more flexible and powerful than I first thought. To use this searching flexibility and power efficiently, I'll have to spend a bit of time thinking about an appropriate labeling convention for the captions. |
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Fauxtoto
Established Forum Member
Quebec, Canada
Posts: 440
Open to constructive criticism of photos: Yes
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Post by Fauxtoto on May 13, 2018 16:05:25 GMT
I assume the manual is for the latest version of PSE but I can use the the above logical operators in my PSE 14.
You can download the Adobe Elements Organizer Help PDF files, for versions 14 to 8, from this Adobe Archive Web page. At the bottom of the page, you will find links leading to pdf help files as well as to tutorials for versions 14 to 7 of Photoshop Elements and Adobe Premiere Elements. |
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Post by Bailey on May 14, 2018 9:29:18 GMT
Thank you very much Fauxtoto I have downloaded the manuals for v14 of PSE, PRE and the Organiser. |
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. I will have a play with them to see how I can use them to make my catalogue searchable in a similar way to a "Google search" as you mentioned.
) and I have always been able to find images from my keywords very quickly, but if I can text search keywords as well as captions, it would be a really nice bonus.
as I have always so far been able to locate photos very quickly using keywords.. This is the first time I have had a close look at it, and it's amazing.
