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Post by Peterj on Jun 1, 2018 23:20:39 GMT
In my post Morning Coffee Guest highlighting the power of raw I offered to share my files for others to experiment. My work flow with these images starts with develop adjusting 1) tone setting (in this order): Blacks -12 Whites 0 Shadows 29 Midtones 14 Contrast 16 Exposure .15 Crop
2) Lens correction automatic
3) Details (in this order): Color 0, detail 0 Luminance 43, detail 16 Sharpening 73, threshold 4
4)Effects Dynamic contrast applied with a luminosity mask Tone enhancer reducing exposure masking out bird Tone enhancer to create a custom vignette using a center shape radial
I think all of the above can be obtained with PSE - I just find On1's user interface easier for me. Both the untouched raw and jpg files are available on Cloudup Morning Coffee RAWMorning Coffee jpgRegards, Pete |
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Post by Bailey on Jun 2, 2018 3:14:11 GMT
Hi Peter, Thank you very much for posting your RAW files. I really appreciate it. Please take my discussion below as just my thoughts and food for thought for anyone else who would like to add something. These are my 3 starting images that I played with. They are just jpeg outputs of your RAW files using PSE's File -> Save for web.  P1030483 (-1 Stop)  P1030484 (0 Stops)  P1030485 (+1 Stop)
In your original thread I described my little experiment to compare the in camera exposure adjustments to Adobe Camera Raw's (ACR) exposure adjustment.
I did the same experiment but this time reduced the exposure of P1030485 by 2 stops in ACR and compared it to P1030483. In theory they should be identical or very similar. To my eyes, they are very alike for all intents and purposes. P1030483  P1030485 reduced by 2 stops in ACR
So after my original experiment, described in my link above, I am still not convinced that bracketing +/- 1 Stop helps much since in ACR you can essentially reproduce any of the 2 other bracketed shots from any of the 3 shots as a starting point.
So I decided to see what I can do with only the middle photo P1030484.  In ACR I made these adjustments on the right (you might have to click the image to see them clearly in the enlargement). I also applied a little noise reduction using the ACR slider on another panel (not shown). In PSE, I made a selection of just the bird to edit using a Levels Adjustment Layer. I moved the white point slider to 192, the start of the rgb data on the bird. I also bumped up the Saturation on just the bird to +35 using a Hue/saturation Adjustment Layer to ty to highlight the colours on the bird just a little more. The end result is this:  P1030484 Edited in ACR/PSE  Peterj's Version in ON1
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Post by Bailey on Jun 2, 2018 4:02:07 GMT
One can play around with the colour toning edits forever. I played just a little more trying to highlight the bird a little more against the background. I increased the exosure in ACR to +0.4 and reduced the whites to -72 to bring back the blue in the sky. And in PSE I bumped up the saturation on the bird to 45. All other edits remain as in my original post. Anyway, fwiw this is the result. For me, the bird is a little brighter and stands out nicely against the background. It would be interesting to know how you exposed for the highlights in your original photos as you described in your original thread. Did you spot meter the sky? |
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Post by Sepiana on Jun 2, 2018 4:18:24 GMT
3) Details (in this order): Color 0, detail 0 Luminance 43, detail 16 Sharpening 73, threshold 4 I think all of the above can be obtained with PSE - I just find On1's user interface easier for me.
Pete, thanks so much for this tutorial! We do appreciate the time and effort you spent on it.
I have a question (particularly for the benefit of new users of Elements). Would you mind elaborating on adjusting Luminance values in Elements?
Thanks in advance!
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Post by Peterj on Jun 2, 2018 14:31:09 GMT
3) Details (in this order): Color 0, detail 0 Luminance 43, detail 16 Sharpening 73, threshold 4 I think all of the above can be obtained with PSE - I just find On1's user interface easier for me.
Pete, thanks so much for this tutorial! We do appreciate the time and effort you spent on it.
I have a question (particularly for the benefit of new users of Elements). Would you mind elaborating on adjusting Luminance values in Elements?
Thanks in advance!
You're most welcome Sepiana!
My third step titled details is available in On1 Photo raw 2017 & 2018 develop module which encompasses sharpening and noise reduction. Both color and luminance in the details section refer to noise reduction specific to color and luminance. I believe it's wise to remove noise prior to sharpening; the threshold setting is masking out where sharpening is NOT applied (holding down alt provide a visual when moving sliders)
I believe ACR has similar functionality.
Perhaps a comparison between On1 and PSE is in order; and by that I mean a how to achieve X Y Z maybe in a table format.
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Post by Bailey on Jun 3, 2018 2:00:18 GMT
... My third step titled details is available in On1 Photo raw 2017 & 2018 develop module which encompasses sharpening and noise reduction. Both color and luminance in the details section refer to noise reduction specific to color and luminance. I believe it's wise to remove noise prior to sharpening; the threshold setting is masking out where sharpening is NOT applied (holding down alt provide a visual when moving sliders)
I believe ACR has similar functionality. ... Yes, ACR has luminance and colour noise reduction. The image on the right are the settings I used in editing your P1030484 image in my previous posts. And yes, noise reduction should be done before sharpening. As I mentioned in your original thread, sharpening is usually the last edit to make for best results. My go to mentors for all things photography and PSE, Scott kelby and Ben Long both teach in their books and courses that sharpening should be the last edit. The reason being that all sharpening algorithms do not actually sharpen an image. In their own way they look for edges and increase the contrast on each side of them creating an "illusion" of sharpening. If you apply edits after sharpening, you will be altering the contrast on each side of the edges thus affecting the apparent sharpening. How noticeable it will be depends on the image and the edit after sharpening. For sharpening I have always found that the Unshaprp mask in PSE is very powerful and does a great job. |
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Post by Sepiana on Jun 3, 2018 2:24:27 GMT
Pete, thanks so much for this tutorial! We do appreciate the time and effort you spent on it.
I have a question (particularly for the benefit of new users of Elements). Would you mind elaborating on adjusting Luminance values in Elements?
Thanks in advance!
You're most welcome Sepiana! My third step titled details is available in On1 Photo raw 2017 & 2018 develop module which encompasses sharpening and noise reduction. Both color and luminance in the details section refer to noise reduction specific to color and luminance. I believe it's wise to remove noise prior to sharpening; the threshold setting is masking out where sharpening is NOT applied (holding down alt provide a visual when moving sliders)
I believe ACR has similar functionality.
Perhaps a comparison between On1 and PSE is in order; and by that I mean a how to achieve X Y Z maybe in a table format.
Pete, thanks so much! This is very helpful.
What a great idea -- a comparison (table format) between ON1 and PSE on how to achieve this. We have several members who use both programs; I am sure they would appreciate it.
Would you like to get the ball running? Send me a PM and we can "fine-tune" the details.
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Post by PeteB on Jun 3, 2018 3:11:26 GMT
 Hi Peter Thanks for allowing me to edit your image. I am using PSE 12 and ACR. My ACR settings were Exposure .25 HiLights -48 Shadows 64 White -21 Black -12 Clarity 48 When editing in ACR, I was not certain about the image colors. I found white on the bird (underneath) and used the color balance tool to sample. Before sampling, shadows were +43 after sampling I re-adjusted the shadows to +64. (It should be noted that the area sampled is actually a very light gray) After the ACR edit, I took the image into PSE. My first step was to use curves (Elements+) to check and/or correct for clipping/color. The background was very bright, I chose to duplicate the layer, change the blend mode to multiply and adjust the opacity. I then masked out he bird. In the background the blue sky was creating a blue “halo” around the leaves and branches. I used the Hue/Saturation tool to sample and desaturate the blue. To replace the sky color, I used the photo filter, selected cyan and (again) masked out the bird. Final edits included dodge and burn around the bird’s eye; neat image for noise and Nik’s tonal contrast and vignette. I did check on this variety of bird and its colors. They are very colorful … I assume that through the picture taking and editing, its colors have been lost …. |
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Post by Bailey on Jun 3, 2018 3:34:10 GMT
Hi PeteB, ... I did check on this variety of bird and its colors. They are very colorful … I assume that through the picture taking and editing, its colors have been lost …. Yes I did a similar thing, google searched anna's hummingbird, because I have never seen one in real life. The images of the bird on google are all of very colourful birds, hence my using a Levels Adjustment Layer and Hue/Saturation Adjustment Layer just on the bird to try to extract some more colour detail from the image by increasing the tonal range and saturation. When I opened up the 3 RAW files in ACR, I felt the bird was under exposed quite a bit in all of them. At least with RAW, you have more options and flexibility in trying to tease out more detail. |
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Post by Sepiana on Jun 3, 2018 3:47:01 GMT
Final edits included dodge and burn around the bird’s eye; neat image for noise and Nik’s tonal contrast and vignette. Pete, I really like these extra steps. You are a master at Dodge/Burn and it shows here. Great job! |
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Post by Bailey on Jun 3, 2018 8:05:49 GMT
 Another advantage of editing RAW images is that you can customise the white balance to whatever you like. I didn't play with it in my previous posts, as they are meant to be quick and simple demos, but it is the first thing I check after opening my own images in ACR. It's fairly simple and straight forward. You select the "white balance tool" from the tool bar. I then look for something in the image that is a middle grey and click it. ACR then makes the pixel you clicked middle grey and adjusts all the colours in the other pixels accordingly. You can then fine tune the white balance by playing with the Temperature and Tint sliders. There are presets you can choose from for white balance, but I don't like using them. I prefer to click a middle grey or neutral colour and then fine tune using the sliders if required. Shooting in RAW means you can be lazy and just leave the white balance setting on your camera on Auto and then fix it in ACR if the camera didn't get it right. Fixing white balance issues with jpegs can be a real hassle or nightmare, especially with scenes with mutiple and varying light sources. The RAW editor (ACR or any other) essentially gives you the freedom to set the parameters using your computer that are otherwise largely automatically set by your in camera processing when it converts the image to jpeg, if shooting in jpeg, when you take a photo.
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Post by Bailey on Jun 6, 2018 2:12:48 GMT
In my first post, I did a comparison of Adobe Camera Raw's exposure adjustment with your in camera exposure adjustment and found that they match extremely closely (on my screen at least).
If someone did the same comparison in ON1, will the match be the same?
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