popcorn
Junior Forum Member
Is this the correct forum to post this; but I am open to constructive feedback
Posts: 243
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Post by popcorn on Oct 1, 2021 20:49:41 GMT
Hi,
My catalogue is always getting clogged up with links to images I do not want.
I end up having links to outdated edits of an image which have been automatically imported from the editor.
When I then try to import the final edit, Organizer informs me that it already exists in the catalogue.
I also save stages of edits to different folders and move the files around so there are then lots of broken links.
I often rename files during editing, if files are imported automatically during editing, I end up with multiple links to the same file, all with a different name.
Is there anyway to limit imports to the catalogue to only those images I manually import?
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Post by Sepiana on Oct 1, 2021 21:16:13 GMT
Hi popcorn, michelb, our in-house Organizer guru is better qualified to help you. I'm just getting the ball running (hopefully in the right direction). Have you tried disabling Watch Folders? File>Watch Folders> . . . turn off "Watch Folders and their Sub-Folders for New Files". If you have folders already selected for watching, you can remove them. I had a similar problem; disabling Watch Folders helped. |
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popcorn
Junior Forum Member
Is this the correct forum to post this; but I am open to constructive feedback
Posts: 243
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Post by popcorn on Oct 1, 2021 21:50:50 GMT
Hi Sepiana,
My Watch Folders box is not Checked. Does this qualify as disabled?
I had two folders to watch, I would have thought that not checking "Watch Folders" would over-ride this.
I have now removed them.
I also had "Notiy me" selected not "Automatically Add Files to Elements Organizer"
I have spent this evening cleaning up my catalogue, now time for bed in South Africa!!
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Post by BuckSkin on Oct 1, 2021 23:52:32 GMT
Make sure you have the various "Save in the Organizer" options disabled in your Save As box.
I have to be watchful if I restart the machine; sometimes, about one out of three, it will enable these options that I always keep disabled.
I never use the Organizer; however, if one of my images gets inadvertently introduced to the Organizer, it will always corrupt the Date Taken.
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Post by michelb on Oct 2, 2021 7:28:07 GMT
Hi Sepiana, My Watch Folders box is not Checked. Does this qualify as disabled? I had two folders to watch, I would have thought that not checking "Watch Folders" would over-ride this. I have now removed them. I also had "Notiy me" selected not "Automatically Add Files to Elements Organizer" I have spent this evening cleaning up my catalogue, now time for bed in South Africa!!
It does not look like your main issue is with the watched folders. As stated by BuckSkin, the key to ignore 'importing' unwanted files into the organizer is the option in the save dialog. Generally, the setting to import into the organizer is 'sticky', so it should be enough not to tick the checkbox; however there are different situations in which the organizer remembers a special case where that was changed. However, that should not create the amount of issues you are describing. I think that you should first eliminate the possibility of a corruption of your preferences (reset them on next launch). Then check the boxes in the 'save' dialog.
We'll probably have to discuss more in detail how you manage 'importing' and 'saving' for your various versions. The preferences for saving are in the editor menu Edit >> Preferences >> Saving files
Of course, I suppose you follow the golden rule for any types of catalogs: never move, rename or delete OUTSIDE of the organizer or similar catalog management software. - You can rename safely
- you can delete (don't forget to specify if only in the catalog or also from disk) - the organizer manages version sets very well. You are allowed to store the versions in other folders than the one of the original. - the organizer always checks to avoid creating duplicates in importing or saving operations. Files with the same name are not necessarily duplicates, the main criteria are date_taken and file size in KB. This checks the target saving settings with what is already in the catalog (not elsewhere on the disk). - There is a way to create voluntarily real duplicates if you want from the organizer (menu File >> duplicate). The copy is renamed and you can move it where you want. - Very often, you don't need to create copies for various puposes. The same file can be present in different 'albums' created temporarily if you wish.
So, it should be possible to manage your various editing stages without creating unwanted copies on your computer in the 'saving' process
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popcorn
Junior Forum Member
Is this the correct forum to post this; but I am open to constructive feedback
Posts: 243
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Post by popcorn on Oct 2, 2021 14:04:32 GMT
I am using Elements 2018 with Windows10. In Edit >> Preferences I do not have a ..”Saving files” option This what my preference window looks like  If I select Edit>>Preferences>>Files this Window appears  I know that Organizer does not have files in it, only links to the files. In the section “Folders for Saved Files”,…… I am not sure ; what files it is saving, where it is saving them to or why it is saving files at all?. If I select File>>Manage Catalogs…… this Window appears  There doesn’t appear to be anything of relevance here. If I go Files>>”Watch Folders”, this is how it is set up  I am not sure what you meant by “You can rename safely” Does this mean I can rename a link in the catalog and it will remain linked to the same file in external folder where the file is being stored. Will it change the name of the file in the external folder or will the link and the file have different names/ Is so, is there any way that I can get the names to correspond? At the moment, if I want to change the name of an image file, I do so in the external folder. I then import the renamed file into Organizer. It assigns a new renamed link. I then assign Tabs to the renamed link using the Tabs on the old link as reference. I then delete the link under the old name. Are there any other settings I should be changing? I hope that the screen shots I have included are legible. Thanks |
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popcorn
Junior Forum Member
Is this the correct forum to post this; but I am open to constructive feedback
Posts: 243
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Post by popcorn on Oct 2, 2021 16:01:29 GMT
Seems as if I managed to mix up File>>>Manage Catalog window ( See attached )  |
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Post by Sepiana on Oct 2, 2021 21:20:01 GMT
I am using Elements 2018 with Windows10. In Edit >> Preferences I do not have a ..”Saving files” option This what my preference window looks like popcorn, Your screenshot shows the Organizer's Preferences. You need to go to the Editor's Preferences. The preferences for saving are in the editor menu Edit >> Preferences >> Saving files  |
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Post by michelb on Oct 3, 2021 8:15:22 GMT
I am not sure what you meant by “You can rename safely” Does this mean I can rename a link in the catalog and it will remain linked to the same file in external folder where the file is being stored. Will it change the name of the file in the external folder or will the link and the file have different names/ Is so, is there any way that I can get the names to correspond? At the moment, if I want to change the name of an image file, I do so in the external folder. I then import the renamed file into Organizer. It assigns a new renamed link. I then assign Tabs to the renamed link using the Tabs on the old link as reference. I then delete the link under the old name. When you rename, move or delete from the organizer, you are at the same time: - updating the catalog - applying the commands just like if you were in the Explorer.
Don't make it complicate. It would be different if your purpose was to create another copy with another name. The normal way is to save 'in a version set', which means creating the renamed copy both in the catalog and on the disk, while keeping the original and the versions as a distinck group, the version SET. The versions don't have to be in the same folder. They allow a better display by showing only one thumbnail (the set is collapsed, just like in a stack). Version sets are very important when you want to manage safely your originals, keeping them untouched, and the various versions.
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popcorn
Junior Forum Member
Is this the correct forum to post this; but I am open to constructive feedback
Posts: 243
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Post by popcorn on Oct 4, 2021 10:48:01 GMT
Thanks Sepiana & Michel, I am still trying to get my head around the Organizer "Tree", what I can do there, and what not ? I actually end up renaming each file. I am compensating for a failing memory!! I now rename an image file, when I export it to the Organizer, by adding a "+" at the end of each file name. I now only import images into the Organizer in batches of about five at a time, so that I can complete tagging and rating each import batch in the time available to me. Often at the end of a session, some images in the folder have not yet been exported, they do not have a "+". At least when I start up again, I now know which files have not been exported. This all gets done in "Explorer" before exporting to Organizer, so there is no conflict problem. However sometimes I come across an image in the Organizer that does not have the "+" added. I would like to rename it in Organizer, to add the "+" and have Elements rename the actual file to conform. You quote below refers; "When you rename, move or delete from the organizer, you are at the same time: - updating the catalog - applying the commands just like if you were in the Explorer." I can't seem to find any facility to rename files in the Organizer? Is there anyway to make the default setting of the "Save-as" window with "Save in Organizer" unchecked? Sepiana, Here is my Editor>>Preferences..... Is there anything that I should change?  |
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Post by michelb on Oct 4, 2021 12:11:24 GMT
Highlight your file thumbnail in the browsing space, then use the menu 'Rename'. Enter the new name (the extension, like .jpeg will be kept). The shortcut for that menu command is Ctrl + Shift + N. The right click contextual menu does NOT offer rename.
Renaming several highlighted thumbnails at the same time is possible: it implies using the same renaming convention. The organizer now considers you want to give a name starting with the same text and followed by an order number, like 'myalbumX-01, myalbumX-02... ' etc. Useful when you have an album you have carefully sorted in 'album order': all the files are renamed in such a way that the Explorer or any external program can recognize your sort order.
Renaming file names is an option of other processes in the organizer: - when you import the files from camera or files and folders - when you export files from your catalog to other locations on your computer for use of external programs. Exported files are not included in the catalog by default. - when you use the command file >> duplicate to create a strict copy with only a filename change: then the suffix -copy is added to the copy. That's not a rename of the original.
From the editor, the rule for your safety is that you should never overwrite an original inadvertently. That's what you can choose from the preferences menu of the organizer. You have opened and edited a file in the editor. If you want to save it and keep the same name, overwriting voluntarily the original file, your preference is checked. If it's not 'save over current file' you are led to 'save as', that is create a copy with the suffix '-edited-1'
Let's start with testing the above tips. I think that your purpose of making files easy to find once you 'import' them into the catalog would be better served with adding a caption than with renaming. It's your choice.
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popcorn
Junior Forum Member
Is this the correct forum to post this; but I am open to constructive feedback
Posts: 243
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Post by popcorn on Oct 4, 2021 19:19:54 GMT
Thank you Michel.
Unfortunately I seem to always make it difficult for myself.
Bird Photography is my passion.
I have thousands of photographs of birds and for each I need to be able to identify the bird, where and when it was taken and the _DSC number.
A typical file name would be "Kite-Black Shouldered-West Coast NP-Apr2021-3336"
The Kite has been renamed Black winged, so I tried to rename the file in Organizer.
I used the File>>rename route as you described, unfortunately the Organizer rename name field seems to be limited to 30 characters.
I realize that my lengthy file names are very specific to my needs, so I will have to live with having to delete the link from the catalogue, renaming the file in Explorer and re-importing to Organizer.
My problem is essentially re-editing the names of the files.
Considering the number of existing images involved, I guess I will have to stick to my naming convention.
Thank you for your help.
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Post by BuckSkin on Oct 5, 2021 2:45:07 GMT
I have thousands of photographs of birds and for each I need to be able to identify the bird, where and when it was taken and the _DSC number. A typical file name would be "Kite-Black Shouldered-West Coast NP-Apr2021-3336" The Kite has been renamed Black winged, so I tried to rename the file in Organizer. I find FREE Advanced Renamer to be very useful in such situations. www.advancedrenamer.com/It can name and rename files in almost any configuration; and, most useful of all, it has the ability to remove, or add, or add and remove any multiple of characters from anywhere in an entire batch of file or folder names. For instance, lets say you have a thousand files that you want to remove a certain group of three characters and add a differing group of five characters, while leaving the rest of the filenames intact, this is easily doable in Advanced Renamer; and, when you click "Start Batch", it is done blazingly fast. As for keeping your birds identifiable and findable, I highly recommend heirarchical Keyword Tags, in other words, tags and subtags in "tree" fashion. While the Organizer should have this capability, I use free digiKam as no other software even comes close to it's keyword abilities, both on the applying and in the finding end of things. An example tag tree structure for your case might be Animal / Bird / Songbird / Cardinal / Female Cardinal All animals, including birds, would go under the "Animal" tag. All birds, including songbirds, would be under the "Bird" tag. And so forth and so on. You can have as many subtags under a single tag as you wish and every subtag can have many more subtags under it. |
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Post by michelb on Oct 6, 2021 9:56:56 GMT
Just to say that there is a solution allowing not changing anything to your existing file names. It requires you give up using file names for future file identification and use captions with the same renaming convention. The search tool is apt to search indifferently from file names or captions. More if you are interested.
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popcorn
Junior Forum Member
Is this the correct forum to post this; but I am open to constructive feedback
Posts: 243
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Post by popcorn on Oct 6, 2021 12:54:59 GMT
Hi Michel & Bucksin,
Thanks you for your interest
I would love to change from my ungainly file naming system, so I am definitely interested in more.
I guess what I am doing is doubling up on the work.
My present system does however allows me to go to the source folder if I roughly know the date, these are named with the specific date on which they were downloaded with a group description ( 2021-10-06 Strandfontein birds ).
I can then select the exact file I am looking for because the content is fully described in the file name.
If I were to simplify the name and only name them with, say, the camera number ( DSC5469 ), I would have to view the total contents of the folder to select the right file.
Then, if I alter the file name, I lose the connection to the Organizer with all the Tags allocated to those images,
Any help will be fantastic.
Buckskin,
I have all my images tagged in Organizer in almost exactly the tree order you have used in your example.
This is only part of the problem. Should I have to rename a file, even to correct a bird name ( they change them faster than I can keep up with, yesterday's Gallinule become todays African Swamphen overnight , and, presto, the Tags are outdated. I probably have to find and rename maybe twenty images, and when I do, they lose their connection to the Organizer and I lose all my Tags. They then have to be re-Tagged from scratch.
Advanced Renamer, seems a good bet for the file name changes but the problem with the Tags remains.
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