Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 7, 2015 12:46:28 GMT
Hello Everyone,
I am printing a 4888px x 3456px (A4 aspect ratio at 418ppi) image to an A4 sheet using an Epson SC-P600 inkjet printer.
I see something unexpected in the PSE 10 print dialog window when I set up my print job.
I do the following steps:
1) File -> Print -> More Options
2) In the More Options window I click Colour Management, then select my customised printer profile and then click Printer Preferences to set up my printer driver.
3) In the printer driver dialog box I set the print quality setting to 1440dpi x 1440dpi. There is a higher setting available as well of 5760dpi x 1440dpi.
4) When I click OK a few times to get back to the PSE 10 print dialog box I see that PSE 10 has the print quality set to 720 DPI.
I expected to see 1440 DPI displayed in the PSE 10 print dialog box after I set the value in the printer driver.
Even if I choose the 5760dpi x 1440dpi print quality in the printer driver, PSE 10 still displays 720 DPI when I click OK a few times to return to the PSE print dialog window from the printer driver window.
My query is this:
Although the print looks really nice, I am not sure if the print is at 1440 dpi, as I set in my printer driver, or at 720 dpi.
Is the 720 DPI displayed in the PSE 10 print dialog box a bug or is PSE 10 somehow over-riding the printer driver's print quality with the PSE apparent maximum of 720 dpi?
|
|
ken1
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 83 
Open to constructive criticism of photos: Yes
|
Post by ken1 on May 7, 2015 17:53:55 GMT
davep9,
DPI=dots per inch, which is determined by the printer (print head, ink cartridges, driver, etc.)
PX/in=pixels per inch, which refers to the resolution of the file. For printing, it is recommended that the px/in value be in the 240-300 range. For web work, 72 px/in is ok.
You can ascertain the resolution of you files readily by going to Image>resize>Image size. You can resample here, if necessary for your purpose.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 7, 2015 23:59:33 GMT
Hi ken1,
Thank you for your reply, but I think you don't undestand the issue I posted about.
I am fully aware of the difference between ppi and dpi. If you look at my original post you will see I said my image was set to 418ppi so I can print to an A4 sheet. I am fully aware that if I set the ppi to, say, 300ppi I can then print the image on a larger sheet. You don't need to resample (alter the pixels' RGB values) in order to change the print size. You can just change the ppi setting and as long as the ppi value is at least the rule of thumb minimum ~300ppi then your print should look ok.
I am also aware that the printer basically looks at 418 px for an inch of print and then translates the RGB values for those pixels to 1440 dots of ink (using the 9 ink cartridges) over 1 inch of paper.
My query is why does PSE 10 display 720 DPI in its print dialog box after I have set the print quality in my printer driver to 1440dpi or even higher at 5760dpi?
I hope this clarifies my query for you.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 8, 2015 14:46:42 GMT
Dave.... See you made it to the new forum.  I tried to replicate your problem but I only have PSE7 and the dialogs are a little different and I don't see the resolution of the printer anywhere there. Sorry I can't help. Colin |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 8, 2015 23:11:56 GMT
Dave.... See you made it to the new forum. Hi Colin,
Off Topic: yes, I'm not sure what happened to the old forum. A couple of days ago it just seemed to "blow up" when I logged on by redirecting to some other web site  . Looking at this forum's home page, it appears this forum has been around for only a few months. Is this forum the replacement of the old one?
In any case, I did some further testing and made the following observations: 1) When I select my Epson Workforce 435 (All-in-one printer/scanner/photcopier) I see in its printer driver the print quality options Draft, Text, Text w/- Image, Photo, Best Photo. 2) I set the printer quality in the Workforce 435's printer driver to Best Photo. The Print Quality value in the PSE 10 print dialog box was 720 DPI after clicking ok a couple of times to return to it. I made an A4 print of my test image. 3) I then selected the Epson SC-P600 (dedicated printer, no other functions) and set its print quality to 1440 dpi x 1440 dpi as described in my original post. The Print Quality value in the PSE 10 print dialog box was 720 DPI after clicking ok a couple of times to return to it. I made an A4 print of my test image. With both prints, I used customised printer profiles for the printer/paper combination. To the naked eye, the test print's quality from the Epson SC-P600 is slightly better than that of the Epson Workforce 435. The Workforce 435 has 4 ink cartridges (CYMK), the SC-P600 has 9 ink cartridges. Looking at both prints under a magnifying glass, I see the print from the Workforce 435 is noticeably more grainy than the print from the SC-P600. The print from the SC-P600 has zero or next to zero graininess. I now suspect that PSE 10 reads the print quality from the selected printer driver's settings since that is the only place I can set the print quality for the printer. Nowhere do I set the printer driver's print quality setting from within PSE 10. I only access the printer driver dialog box from within PSE 10. My suspicion is that PSE 10 has a bug which limits its display of the print quality (supposedly read from the printer driver setting) to 3 digits. If PSE 10 reads a 4 digit dpi print quality value from the selected printer driver it displays an apparent maximum value (3 digits) of 720 DPI. It would be nice to know with 100% certainty why PSE 10 does not display 1440 dpi as the print quality value after I have set 1440 dpi as the print quality in the printer driver. If anyone can prove or disprove my suspicions/theories or shed anymore light on this issue, I am all ears. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 9, 2015 0:00:02 GMT
Off Topic: yes, I'm not sure what happened to the old forum. A couple of days ago it just seemed to "blow up" when I logged on by redirecting to some other web site . Looking at this forum's home page, it appears this forum has been around for only a few months. Is this forum the replacement of the old one? Hi Dave, Elements Village was due to close its door on 31-May-2015 as the costs of keeping the hardware and software updated was just too much and attacks as the one that suddenly appeared a week or so ago, meant that EV closed sooner than planned. A few of us got together when the closure was first announced some months back and decided that we would try and find a new home for us. This forum is just that: a new home. Hope this helps to clarify things a little. |
|
craftysnapper
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 184
Open to constructive criticism of photos: Yes
|
Post by craftysnapper on May 9, 2015 7:49:59 GMT
Hi ken1, My query is why does PSE 10 display 720 DPI in its print dialog box after I have set the print quality in my printer driver to 1440dpi or even higher at 5760dpi? I hope this clarifies my query for you. Because 720dpi is the nearest setting that divides equally into your printers dpi setting and make it easier for your printer to calculate. If attach my own cheap HP office all in one printer which has a dpi off 1200 and it selects 600dpi a division of 1200dpi. Hope that helps. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 9, 2015 12:11:02 GMT
......This forum is just that: a new home....
Hi storkington,
This looks like a nice new home as well
Hi craftysnapper,
Thank you for the information
but I don't see how PSE 10 displaying an even multiple of the print quality (dpi) set in the printer driver helps it calculate anything. Maybe I'm missing something  .
For example:
In an earlier post I posted my observations when setting up a test print on my Workforce 435 All-In-One (Printer/Scanner/Copier) CYMK printer.
Below are the DPI values PSE 10 displays after accessing the printer driver from within the PSE print dialog box and setting the printer driver's print quality.
Printer Driver Setting ---------------------------- | DPI Displayed in PSE10 Print Dialog Box ---------------------------------------------- | | Draft | 120 DPI | | Text | 360 DPI | | Text w/- Image | 360 DPI | | Photo | 720 DPI | | Best Photo | 720 DPI |
To my understanding of what PSE10 is doing, PSE reads and then displays in the print dialog box the actual DPI value from the printer driver according to the printer driver setting Draft, Text etc.
My Epson SC-P600 printer driver has actual DPI value options to choose from instead of Draft, Text etc to set the print quality, so my query still is - if I set a print quality of 1440 dpi in the SC-P600 printer driver why does PSE10 still display 720 DPI in its print dialog box?
I would have thought that PSE10 should be able to simply read the print quality (1440 dpi value) from the SC-P600 printer driver, as it appears to read dpi settings from the Workforce printer driver, and then display 1440 DPI in its print dialog box.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sepiana on May 9, 2015 17:47:21 GMT
|
|
danudin
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 132
|
Post by danudin on May 9, 2015 18:30:44 GMT
I have PSE 10 and when I select my printer, PSE 10 sets the print quality to the highest my printer is capable of. 600 DPI, if I wanted to print high quality than that I would send the image out to a Photo Lab, or at a minimum upgrade to PSE13 (or whatever) this is a newish printer and maybe PSE can't match it's specs. If I had the money to buy that printer, I would buy a new camera box/ LoL
Ron
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 9, 2015 22:42:15 GMT
Hi Sepiana,
yes I posted in the Adobe forum and as you can see from your link, I haven't received any replies yet.
I think Adobe people are either not too concerned about supporting older versions of PSE or, as I suspect, they do not want to admit that PSE 10 has a limitation of reading only 3 digit DPI values as I posted earlier.
I would have thought that they could have just said something like yes it was a bug but has been fixed in later versions. Maybe the bug is still there, I don't know 
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 9, 2015 22:54:23 GMT
I have PSE 10 and when I select my printer, PSE 10 sets the print quality to the highest my printer is capable of. 600 DPI, ..........
Hi Ron,
Your printer is essentially confirming the information I posted in the table in my earlier post showing the DPI values PSE10 reads from the Workforce all-in-one printer driver except that I can set the print quality in its printer driver where, as you say, your PSE selects the printer's max. DPI capability.
I will try to upload a screen shot of my PSE 10 print dialog box and the SC-P600 printer driver dialog box so everyone can what I am doing. (Hopefully the upload will work)
Whether I choose level 4 (1440dpi x 1440 dpi) or level 5 (5760dp x 1440dpi) PSE10 still displays 720 DPI in its print dialog box.
I am 99% sure that the print from the SC-P600 printer is still printed at 1440dpi because, as I described in an earlier post, the print quality of my test print from the SC-P600 printer is noticeably better than the same test print from the Workforce printer, especially when viewed through a magnifying glass.
I still believe that PSE 10 cannot read 4 digit DPI values but I would like to know for sure if possible. Does anyone using a later version of PSE with a printer that can print at at least 1440dpi see the same issue as I see in PSE 10 or has it been fixed?
(click the image to view it in full size)
ps....the ink levels are greyed out because the printer is off for this demo. The DPI issue still exists when the printer is on.
|
|
danudin
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 132
|
Post by danudin on May 10, 2015 0:59:32 GMT
Dave I am impressed that you can achieve a screenshot showing both the PSE10 print controls and the Printer property menus, however I think you have stated what I was trying to say. PSE10 is too old and simplistic a program to deal with the algorithms needed to print at such a heavy dot per inch capacity. Photoshop may be able to do it but in reality, I don't think of PSE as being for Professionals which your printer obviously is! I tried to be funny by saying that if I had Aust$1,500 I wouldn't put it towards a printer but would buy a Nikon D750 full sensor camera which could produce photos suitable for your printer which I would then send out to a Photolab for printing. I admit to being retired and a tightwad but in reality it is only a hobby to me.
Ron
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 1:27:44 GMT
Hi Ron,
I don't think Photoshop actually controls the printer DPI because nowhere within PSE10 do I actually set the printer's print quality (dpi). Within PSE10 I only access the printer's driver (as shown in the screenshot) and I set the printer's print quality (dpi) in the actual printer driver dialog box.
To my understanding, PSE10 sends the pixel data (RGB values) to the printer driver and the printer driver, not PSE10, then translates the RGB pixel date to the equivalent ink dots according to its dithering algorithms for the set dpi in the printer driver's print quality, in this case 1440dpi.
Again to my understanding, PSE10 only reads the dpi setting from the printer driver and then displays the value in the "Printer Settings" section of the PSE10 print dialog box. But it appears to me PSE10 has a bug in that it can display only 3 digits for dpi values. So if it reads a 4 digit dpi value from the printer driver then the displayed value defaults to PSE10's apparent max. value of 720dpi.
The printer still prints at 1440dpi as per my description in an earlier post when comparing a test print from my Workforce 435 all-in-one printer to the same test print from the SC-P600 printer.
If anyone can prove or disprove my theory/understanding, I am all ears.
On a side point:
I did a lot of thinking and head scratching before deciding to buy the SC-P600 (It's quite a bit cheaper at Ted's Camera Store, where I bought mine). But I have given up going to Photo Labs because although I found one that outputs prints fairly close to what I see on my screen, it's not really close enough for me.
I have gone through the process of properly calibrating my screen and making my own customised printer profiles for my printer/paper combinations. Now the colours on my prints match very closely to the image's colours on my screen. I print a lot of enlargements (A3 and A3+) and so the printer in the not too distant future will pay for itself when you take into account what it cost me to make A3 sized prints at a photo lab. Now I have full control over the colour management of my screen and prints and I can make photo lab quality (or better) prints at my convenience and from home. After the printer pays for itself, my print costs will be very much less than sending them to a photo lab.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 16, 2015 12:55:22 GMT
After doing more research I am now convinced that PSE 10 reads the print quality from the printer driver and then displays it in the print dialog box for information purposes only. PSE10 does not actually use the print quality value it reads from the printer driver.
I found some useful information on the HowStuffWorks web site which shows how printers work after you click "OK" to print.
How Ink Jet printers Work
Points 1 to 3 in the link above confirm my understanding of how printers work.
Step 1 sends the pixel data from your print application (PSE10) to the printer driver which then converts the pixel data to dots of coloured ink data (dpi). The printer driver then sends the converted data to the printer for printing.
So PSE does not calculate any of the dots data that the printer requires/understands. The printer driver does all the number crunching and this is the way it should be , when I think about it, because you can't expect a printing application like PSE, PS or any other to have built into it all the algorithms for pixel to dots conversion for the vast combinations of printer makes and models out in the market.
So given that the printer driver, and not PSE, does all the number crunching I am now 100% convinced that my printer is printing at whatever dpi setting I set (1440pi or 5760dpi) and not what PSE displays in its printer dialog box which is for display/information purposes only. My test print's print quality from the SC-P600 is noticeably better than the print quality the Workforce 435 (All-in-one) outputs.
In conclusion, the 720dpi displayed in PSE10 when I set 1440dpi or 5760dpi in the printer driver is a bug. Maybe the old version of PSE10 can't read the format the dpi is stored in the printer driver and so defaults to display an apparent max. of 720dpi.
Thank you to everyone who tried to help
|
|
.
.
