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Post by Peterj on Oct 19, 2017 13:02:41 GMT
Considering the latest LR announcement I'm wondering is PSE is the last purchase license for photo editing in their offerings. I'm 100% against subscription software licensing.
Thoughts?
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Post by Sydney on Oct 19, 2017 23:08:25 GMT
Interesting question. I was surprised to read there will be no more new versions of the non-subscription version of LR, so who knows what's in the pipeline for PSE. Nothing would surprise me with Adobe.
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Post by michelb on Oct 20, 2017 9:29:20 GMT
Interesting question. I was surprised to read there will be no more new versions of the non-subscription version of LR, so who knows what's in the pipeline for PSE. Nothing would surprise me with Adobe. For most LR users there was no surprise at all. - The logic of Adobe is simple: business is business. They are so successful with their subscription model for their target customers that they can't go wrong. - The new features in the two 'flavors' of LR and Photoshop will mean a lot of updates and bug fixes. The subscription model is by far the most cost effective maintenance way in this circumstance. The Cloud based option is obviously linked to subscriptions. - Everybody seems to assume that Adobe knows their customers from forums... Just look at the number of enquiries and external marketing studies they are ordering. - Elements: unless you disable the function to send feedback to Adobe when you are using the tool, they perfectly know statistically what their target audience does and wants; the target audience is not 'pro'. When you are asked to answer enquiries about Adobe products, if you are not 'pro', you are thanked and bye bye... no need to tell which software you are using. You could setup a poll in this forum to know how many users would agree to switch to the subscription model. I am sure that Adobe already knows the answer. - Elements is not meant as a profit software; rather as a 'soft' and easy way to enter the 'pro' model. |
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Post by cats4jan on Oct 20, 2017 10:07:07 GMT
Elements is not meant as a profit software; rather as a 'soft' and easy way to enter the 'pro' model. I don't agree with this supposition. I believe PSE is a niche product for those of us who don't want or need all the options presented with CC. I switched to CC a few years back and when it was time to purchase a new version, I went back to PSE because CC was overkill for someone who does Digital Scrapbooking or for someone who just wants to crop a photo, or correct some flaws. When I fix a photo, I do not need all the degrees of options CC has. All I need is basics. And now, when PSE is so advanced, there really isn't a need for a 'point and shoot' 'auto' photographer to have anything more. I am sincerely hoping they do not go 'subscription' with PSE. I can see the advantages to getting updates easily, but I like to own my software (actually still want the disk and not a download) - I don't want Adobe or any other software company monitoring my usage. However, I am of the opinion that the next version will be subscription. For Adobe, they have success with the model and can see no downside to switching PSE also. They don't really care what we think - they only care what works easiest for them. They know we really don't have options when it comes to quality photo editing software if we move away from PSE. Even Microsoft gave up their entry into the field 10 years ago. They had a pretty decent photo editing software which was morphing into a rival to Adobe, but Microsoft saw the writing on the wall and gave up on Digital Image Pro. Now there are no rivals to Photoshop and Elements. There are lesser products for people who 'dabble' but there is no other quality editing software. Therefore, we will buy our subscriptions - we may grumble, but we will not give up our PSE and Adobe knows it. |
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Post by michelb on Oct 20, 2017 11:39:39 GMT
Elements is not meant as a profit software; rather as a 'soft' and easy way to enter the 'pro' model. I don't agree with this supposition. I believe PSE is a niche product for those of us who don't want or need all the options presented with CC. I switched to CC a few years back and when it was time to purchase a new version, I went back to PSE because CC was overkill for someone who does Digital Scrapbooking or for someone who just wants to crop a photo, or correct some flaws. When I fix a photo, I do not need all the degrees of options CC has. All I need is basics. And now, when PSE is so advanced, there really isn't a need for a 'point and shoot' 'auto' photographer to have anything more. I am sincerely hoping they do not go 'subscription' with PSE. I can see the advantages to getting updates easily, but I like to own my software (actually still want the disk and not a download) - I don't want Adobe or any other software company monitoring my usage. However, I am of the opinion that the next version will be subscription. For Adobe, they have success with the model and can see no downside to switching PSE also. They don't really care what we think - they only care what works easiest for them. They know we really don't have options when it comes to quality photo editing software if we move away from PSE. Even Microsoft gave up their entry into the field 10 years ago. They had a pretty decent photo editing software which was morphing into a rival to Adobe, but Microsoft saw the writing on the wall and gave up on Digital Image Pro. Now there are no rivals to Photoshop and Elements. There are lesser products for people who 'dabble' but there is no other quality editing software. Therefore, we will buy our subscriptions - we may grumble, but we will not give up our PSE and Adobe knows it. Business. What I said about Elements not being a profit software in their range is not new, it has always been considered an entry point to the other softwares  . They even have 40% rebate campaigns at times. If you look closely at the new features, it's easy to show that: - they target new 'fancy' and 'automatic' features users. - they take great care not to introduce serious improvements which could appear as competition over LR or Photoshop. I am convinced that they perfectly know most Elements users would NOT subscribe, those who could have probably already subscribed to CC which is a good deal for serious amateurs. For good business reasons, I see them continuing the present perpetual license model. After all, the yearly version update in the present computer world is more and more necessary. You could upgrade every five years before, now, if you are serious, your interest is to update every two years... just on account of OS and hardware changes. I really can't see how the subscription model could be more profitable. Remember that the subscription model would imply numerous updates within the year. Really, I don't think the Indian Elements team has the size to sustain those repeated updates. We both are not typical of the majority of Elements users. We do know the strengths of Elements when compared with other competitors. Adobe has no interest to advertise on those strengths. The minority of Photoshop or LR users who downgrade for Elements do it because of the perpetual model. Good thing for Adobe to keep customers anyway. That said, don't underestimate the competition, old ones like ACFSee, Corel, Gimp or emerging ones like OnOne, Rawtherapy, Darktable... Many posts like these: www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60258917 |
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Post by Lillias on Oct 20, 2017 12:08:20 GMT
I'm not into the subscription model either nor am I into the 'cloud'. I'm one of the dinosaurs who still prefers to own my own software in disk form instead of a download.
If Adobe does go down the subscription route with PSE then I fear when my present copy of PSE becomes unusable I will be looking elsewhere such as Serif's Affinity Photo which gets very good write ups and I know they have a dedicated team working very hard on improving this still relatively new software.
I don't expect Adobe will cry into their coffee about those of us who feel the same.
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Post by Sepiana on Oct 20, 2017 14:33:35 GMT
I am not going into this discussion in a very lengthy way. I am on the same wavelength as Michel and he has already said what I would have. Also, he is much better qualified to discuss this issue -- longstanding member on the Adobe forums, Adobe Community Professional & MPV. I am just adding some clarification. I don't want Adobe or any other software company monitoring my usage. Adobe gives you the choice of being or not being monitored how you use, for example, Elements. When you launch this program for the first time, you will get a pop-up explaining their "monitoring" and giving you the choice to say Yes or No.
The competition (and a very serious one) is out there. There are VERY serious contenders as Michel pointed out. IMHO, the current product by ON1 Software is a great example.
. . . don't underestimate the competition, old ones like ACFSee, Corel, Gimp or emerging ones like OnOne, Rawtherapy, Darktable... |
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Post by Major Major on Oct 20, 2017 14:57:03 GMT
The competition (and a very serious one) is out there. There are VERY serious contenders as Michel pointed out. IMHO, the current product by ON1 Software is a great example.
ON1's Photo RAW is a useful product, but there are so many things that Elements does that Photo RAW can't that there's really no comparison. For example, Photo RAW can't even handle text. |
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Post by Sepiana on Oct 20, 2017 15:05:52 GMT
If Adobe does go down the subscription route with PSE then I fear when my present copy of PSE becomes unusable I will be looking elsewhere such as Serif's Affinity Photo which gets very good write ups and I know they have a dedicated team working very hard on improving this still relatively new software. I am a CC subscriber -- Lightroom and Photoshop. I also have perpetual versions of both programs -- Lightroom 6 (download), Photoshop CS5 (disk), and Photoshop CS6 (download). As of this writing, they are not "unusable". They are all installed on two machines and I can use them any time I want to. If Adobe decides to release PSE as a subscription-only version, I expect the same will hold true for this program. You paid for a perpetual license of PSE; I can't see Adobe taking it away from you.
And, if you look at "unusable" in the sense of losing the disk or having a computer crash and no backup copy of the downloaded file(s), Adobe has provisions in place.
- You can go to your Adobe account and re-download your copy of PSE. All the versions of PSE I have (going back to version 7) were purchased directly from Adobe. As of this writing, they are still available for downloading.
- If you purchased the boxed version (disk) of PSE, you can download a replacement installer.
helpx.adobe.com/photoshop-elements/kb/photoshop-elements-downloads.html
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Post by Sepiana on Oct 20, 2017 15:19:03 GMT
The competition (and a very serious one) is out there. There are VERY serious contenders as Michel pointed out. IMHO, the current product by ON1 Software is a great example.
ON1's Photo RAW is a useful product, but there are so many things that Elements does that Photo RAW can't that there's really no comparison. For example, Photo RAW can't even handle text. That's true. There have been many requests for ON1 Software to add this feature to Photo RAW. I haven't checked Photo RAW 2018 yet to see if it has been added.
on1help.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000144611-Is-there-a-text-function-in-the-Photo-RAW-2017-
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Post by Peterj on Oct 20, 2017 15:32:58 GMT
1 - RAW 2018 does not have text capabilities :-(
2 - minor clarification concerning OWNING software ... when one purchases a software package one is purchasing a right to use (license) one doesn't own the software.
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Post by Sepiana on Oct 20, 2017 15:39:26 GMT
1 - RAW 2018 does not have text capabilities :-( Pete, thanks! You saved me some "research" time.
Excellent point! This is something that is usually misunderstood. Glad you brought it up. |
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Post by Major Major on Oct 20, 2017 16:21:09 GMT
Nope. Also can't add bevels and do a whole host of other things. |
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Post by Bailey on Oct 21, 2017 9:20:38 GMT
I hope Adobe don't go the subscription path with PSE, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did at some point  I shoot video as well and when I upgrade my editing applications, I always upgrade with the PSE/Premiere Elements bundle, which is cheaper than purchasing the licenses individually. I wonder if Adobe would also go with the subscription path for Premiere Elements at the same time or discontinue offering the bundle if only PSE went to subscription. |
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Post by cats4jan on Oct 21, 2017 14:14:40 GMT
I understand I don't "own" my software. My usage of the term "own" is I have a physical product in my hand and if my internet is 'wonky' and I need to reinstall, I won't need to wait for a better time. I'll just grab my 'old fashioned' disk out of it's little box and go for it.
I realize I'm not moving into the future with my attitude, but until I have to move on, I'm not going to. But like a I said before, I believe the writing is on the wall. I predict next year.
I was not aware of the other photo editing products. My reference was to software which has editing capabilities such as scrapbooking and card making products, I started there and moved on because of their limitations. Those of us who use Adobe products for scrapping and do not design kits, find PSE to be excellent. Like I said before, most of us do not care to have 10 choices on each correction, we are happy to have a couple. Our goal is to make the photo suitable to tell our story on our layout - not for hanging in an art gallery. I sure hope Adobe doesn't abandon us.
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. They even have 40% rebate campaigns at times. 
