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Post by Lillias on Apr 6, 2018 10:23:47 GMT
Yes, v2 looks much better to me and the image is much more "balanced" now. I am not a scrapbooker, but I would think the concepts of composition in photography (leading the viewers eyes through the photo) would still apply in scrapbooking. I’m not a photographer but you are quite correct in what you say about the concepts of composition being the same in both fields - leading the viewers’ eye through the page/photo and unfortunately for my first effort here I forgot or ignored that to the detriment of the page. The great thing about digital scrapbooking is that providing one has kept the PSD file it can be fixed without too much trouble. Thanks again for your input. |
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Post by Bailey on Apr 6, 2018 23:22:44 GMT
I’m not a photographer but you are quite correct in what you say about the concepts of composition being the same in both fields - leading the viewers’ eye through the page/photo and unfortunately for my first effort here I forgot or ignored that to the detriment of the page. The great thing about digital scrapbooking is that providing one has kept the PSD file it can be fixed without too much trouble. Thanks again for your input. No problem BilleJean  Earlier you posted ... If anyone else has any comments to make please feel free to do so as that's how we learn... I agree 100%. We can learn through other peoples' comments. I see many members are "Open to constructive criticism; Yes" but I see very, very few constructive suggestions/ideas on how images might be improved from members on this web site. Maybe I am just visiting the wrong threads  Anyway, I am happy to put in my 2c worth where I feel it might help. |
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Post by cats4jan on Apr 7, 2018 17:45:47 GMT
Excellent comments - great composition is great composition.
I usually am not happy when my left side photos look left. As you stated, it draws my eyes off the edge of my page and it makes me want to change photos or flip the photo. If I can get away with flipping, I will. Scale is another issue. The reason version 2 of Lillias' layout works for me is that the negative is scaled down. You want the positive to be the powerful image and to make that happen, size came into the picture (pardon the pun)
I like the constructive way this thread has gone. Even if a layout designer does not agree with another's assessment, thinking about the impact of changing specific items makes all of us better at composition.
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Post by Bailey on Apr 8, 2018 0:48:56 GMT
I am not a scrapbooker, but I would think the concepts of composition in photography (leading the viewers eyes through the photo) would still apply in scrapbooking. That's what initially hit me in v1. My eyes landed on the negative figure looking left and so my eyes then naturally tended to drift to the left and hence off the image. I had to consciously move my eyes to the right to stay on the image. Now with the negative figure looking right (into the image) my eyes more naturally follow the direction the negative is looking at and hence into the image and onto the positive figure. The viewer's eyes are much less likely now to "fall off" the image in v2. The resizing of the negative and positive figures in v2 now tends to emphasise the positive aspect of the message more than in v1, which makes v2 better as well. Excellent comments - great composition is great composition.... ... I like the constructive way this thread has gone. Even if a layout designer does not agree with another's assessment, thinking about the impact of changing specific items makes all of us better at composition. No problem cats4jan As I posted in another thread recently, I call things as I see them but I always also try to give the reasons or supporting evidence to support my opinion. If someone just tells me this should be lighter/darker/sharper or whatever or if this or that should be moved here or there and not give reasons, I tend to ignore the suggestion. Giving a reason behind a suggestion gives the recipient at least an idea of the direction the suggestion is coming from and so makes the suggestion constructive because it gives the recipient something to at least consider. No-one is infallible. If all I would hear is people telling me how good or wonderful my photos are then I would know something is wrong. At least some of these people aren't looking closely enough at my photos because if they were all correct in their assessment then I would be the greatest photographer of all time and I know for a fact that is no where near the case  . |
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Post by cats4jan on Apr 8, 2018 13:00:09 GMT
I see a great difference between photographers and people who use photographs on their layouts.
At least that's the case for me. I will use a photo that is not that good if it finishes or adds to the 'story' of the page. A photographer is concerned mostly with the quality of the photo. Although I wish all my photos were good, I am not going to pass on a photo that makes me want to create a page.
I'm so glad the phone cameras and the point and shoot cameras are so good that someone like me ends up with great photos without much work. This last vacation, I took only my cell phone (granted it was somewhere I've been many times). I've found the photos from my cell phone suits my scrapping needs. It almost hurts to say I've gotten to this point. LOL I've always been one who loves a great photo.
Although I have to admit - although too lazy to put in the effort - I'm kinda jealous of the skills I see here. There are some truly gifted photographers who share their work on this site. I so enjoy seeing their work - as well as the work of our digital scrapbookers.
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Post by Bailey on Apr 9, 2018 0:06:35 GMT
Yes I agree there is a difference between photographers and people who use photographs on their layouts. As BillieJean agreed with me, the concepts behind composition are at least similar if not the same though.
Maybe there are some truly gifted photographers who share their work on this site, but unfortunately from my observation they either don't have the time or are reluctant to offer constructive criticism to at least newbies on how to improve their photography and processing. I have found only one or two constructive criticism comments on this web site from other members. If there are others I would be grateful if someone would point me to them.
As I mentioned earlier, if all I get is people telling me how wonderful my photos are all the time, I know there is something wrong either with them and/or my photos as described earlier. No-one is infallible.
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Post by cats4jan on Apr 10, 2018 11:45:25 GMT
I think people are hesitant to give criticism - even when we say we are open to criticism. Sometimes it's a matter of opinion, too. What appeals to one, may not appeal to another and making a comment about it may seem wrong.
Constructive criticism would help those of us who aren't good photographers. There are many hints I've gotten over the years that has really made me think more when I take a photo.
One of the simplest and one I think of all the time - - instead of using your telephoto lens, just step closer to your subject. Now that seems like a no brainer, but I often notice I have room to step closer, so now I do.
Another thing is where you want the focus of your photo to land. We get in the habit of centering the main item. Well, putting your subject off center often results in a more interesting photo.
But mainly, it's about learning your camera. Those little cameras - even point and shoots - have so many settings you can 'play' with to achieve different looks.
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Post by hmca on Apr 10, 2018 18:02:26 GMT
I also think having a rapport with someone is often a factor. For me personally, I would tend to hesitate making a suggestion to a member that I have had little contact with, or is new to the forum.
And likewise, I would probably be more apt to follow through with a suggestion from a member who I "know" or who's work I admire. It seems to me that most times, when people are looking for
suggestions they post an image on the Show Your Work Board.
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Post by Bailey on Apr 10, 2018 23:56:42 GMT
Thank you for your thoughts cats4jan and hmca. I guess where I am coming from is that if I believe all the praise that is given to photos on this web site with next to zero constructive suggestions (I'll call them suggestions instead of criticism from hereon) on any, then all the world's best photographers must be here. But they clearly aren't even though some photos are stunning especially if I look back to some members' photos from a couple of years back. For me, and this is just my opinion fwiw, when I look at most photos (not composites or works of art) on this web site in the overwhelming majority of cases I think snaphot.........snapshot.........snapshot. But when I look at the photos on the web site I mention as my "go to" for inspiration in my Inspiring Photos thread the WOW!! factor for me is off the scale in many cases. Sure, there are a few ordinary photos posted there as well. On that web site, there are millions of viewers and thousands of photos posted each 24 hours from all over the planet and there are many professional photographers there who do this for a living (photographing for magazines, advertising companies etc etc) and with extreme passion in some cases. I am sensing very few, if any, are members here. I would have thought that offering constructive suggestions ( with supporting reasons/evidence) can only help build members' skills. Of course the recipient has the option to ignore or consider the suggestion. That's everyone's choice when offered advice. |
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Post by blackmutt on Apr 11, 2018 0:29:49 GMT
I am also of the mind that I would be more likely to take on a suggestion from someone’s work I like. I see a lot of photos out there from “acclaimed” photographers that I wouldn’t line a birdcage with. I also Lurk on other sites that have folks that always chime in but never post a photo. I am suspicious of those.
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Post by Bailey on Apr 11, 2018 1:08:24 GMT
Hi blackmutt, Yes I totally agree with you. As I posted earlier As I posted in another thread recently, I call things as I see them but I always also try to give the reasons or supporting evidence to support my opinion. If someone just tells me this should be lighter/darker/sharper or whatever or if this or that should be moved here or there and not give reasons, I tend to ignore the suggestion. Giving a reason behind a suggestion gives the recipient at least an idea of the direction the suggestion is coming from and so makes the suggestion constructive because it gives the recipient something to at least consider. Earlier I basically confirmed what BillieJean said she thought after she posted v1 of her image. Hi bailey thanks for your comments and no I don’t take them as fault finding or criticism. It’s good sometimes to see things through the eyes of others and I am ‘open to constructive criticism’ as you may have noted. As it happens you have just confirmed thoughts that came to me after I posted my page – The balance on my page is wrong - I have made the negative image too big in comparison to the positive image which could tend to negate the message of positivity over negativity. I’m ashamed to say that I was just too lazy to correct it…my bad as they say… I will take up your suggestions and post again...thanks. Now I don't know who BillieJean is in the real world and she doesn't know who I am, but my original post in this thread definitely helped her. The reason/evidence given to support a suggestion will give the recipient an idea of whether the person making the suggestion knows what they are talking about or not. I also posted in another thread, I have my gallery on 500px and anyone is welcome to discuss my photos there if they like. Apart from the hassle of maintaining 2 galleries if I start one here as well is that if all I am going to get here is people saying how wonderful my photos are, then I don't learn anything and it's a waste of time for me. |
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Post by hmca on Apr 11, 2018 4:31:52 GMT
I am sensing very few, if any, are members here. Perhaps one is? I also posted in another thread, I have my gallery on 500px and anyone is welcome to discuss my photos there if they like. |
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Post by Bailey on Apr 11, 2018 5:40:49 GMT
I posted this a couple of months ago: Thank you for your thoughts and help michelb. Not being a fully professional photographer, your suggestions reinforcing my ideas on backups (based on my experience in database administration of Oracle databases and data integrity) shows me I am on the right track. Thank you Nowadays it's mainly a hobby for me with occasional paid work if it suits me. Anyway, as I posted earlier ... This thread is a good example of how constructive suggestions can help. Earlier I basically confirmed what BillieJean said she thought after she posted v1 of her image. ... |
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Post by Lillias on Apr 11, 2018 13:29:15 GMT
I think the bottom line is – some people are comfortable being critiqued and other’s not so much perhaps. We are all individuals with our own particular sensitivities and the manner in which the critique is given can make a big difference as to how it is received.
There was a time when I didn’t have the confidence to even post in a forum let alone upload a scrapbook page or photo. When I eventually summoned up the courage to do so it was with much trepidation and soul searching on my part. I don’t think I could have coped with a critique of my work back then. I had to find my feet and become more confident in my own abilities and that has taken a lot of time to achieve and I don’t know I’m fully there yet.
I don’t kid myself, I know my work isn’t perfect, I’m not perfect. I have however progressed to the point where I can now accept a critique of my work and if I can learn from it all well and good. If I disagree with it I will say so. But perhaps not everyone has reached this point and as I said at the beginning the manner in which the critique is given can make a big difference as to how it is received.
This is a hobby for me and as long as I’m happy with my results that’s all that really matters and I don’t say that in an arrogant way.
At the end of the day I would hope that we could all be respectful of each other’s points of view.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2018 14:08:33 GMT
Thank you for your thoughts cats4jan and hmca. I guess where I am coming from is that if I believe all the praise that is given to photos on this web site with next to zero constructive suggestions (I'll call them suggestions instead of criticism from hereon) on any, then all the world's best photographers must be here. But they clearly aren't even though some photos are stunning especially if I look back to some members' photos from a couple of years back. For me, and this is just my opinion fwiw, when I look at most photos (not composites or works of art) on this web site in the overwhelming majority of cases I think snaphot.........snapshot.........snapshot. But when I look at the photos on the web site I mention as my "go to" for inspiration in my Inspiring Photos thread the WOW!! factor for me is off the scale in many cases. Sure, there are a few ordinary photos posted there as well. On that web site, there are millions of viewers and thousands of photos posted each 24 hours from all over the planet and there are many professional photographers there who do this for a living (photographing for magazines, advertising companies etc etc) and with extreme passion in some cases. I am sensing very few, if any, are members here. I would have thought that offering constructive suggestions ( with supporting reasons/evidence) can only help build members' skills. Of course the recipient has the option to ignore or consider the suggestion. That's everyone's choice when offered advice. Bailey, I feel the need to respond to this. For the avoidance of doubt, this forum was never set up to be a 500px, Flickr, or other photo sharing site. This forum, as it's title states, is predominantly to help people with their Photoshop Elements questions. Yes, we also deal with other editing software and some related topics, such as photography tips, photography gear, etc, but you will see that those boards do not have that much traffic. Apart from our weekly Image of the Week feature, this forum is not a popularity contest (as some may claim 500px and Flickr are), we are all predominantly here to help each other with our photo editing questions, and some other related queries. If it is professional "wow" photos you are after, you already stated that you go to 500px for that, great, no problem, but please do not critize the fact that this forum does not, in your opinion, have a similar calibre of work. As some of the replies to your comments indicated, there are members that do not want to criticize, even if it is constructive, other member's work, because they may not feel comfortable to do so, or worry how it might be received. If a member wants to get some constructive thoughts on a specific image, they usually ask for it specifically when they post their work in the "Show your Work" board. Now, that is not to say that constructive suggestions cannot be made on any other board, as you have done in this case, but that is not the norm on this forum. Generally speaking, we try to encourage each other and give suggestions when requested. If that is not what you are looking for, perhaps you need to seek this elsewhere, which I understand from a previous comment of yours, you already do. With regards to being a member on something like 500px, it is not the be all and end all. One does not have to be a member there, or anywhere else for that matter, to proof that one is a good photographer. Everyone does what they are comfortable with or however they want to push themselves; a membership to one site or another is not testament to this. Regarding not having a gallery on our forum, it is not mandatory, but it would be nice if people shared their work, especially if like you, you are participating in this forum. Your reference to "maintaining" the gallery is one I don't follow, as most photo sharing websites allow you to share a link to the photo uploaded to their gallery. For instance, as you will note, I use Flickr to share my photos/creations on this forum into my gallery. It takes minutes few, and there really is no maintenance involved, unless I happen to delete a photo that I have shared here from my Flickr site, but then it takes just minutes to delete the offending empty space from my gallery here. If you are not interested in having a gallery on our forum, no problem, perhaps include a link to your 500px profile in your signature here, so that people have the opportunity to view your work there. Just "food for thought"! |
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