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Post by Peterj on Apr 23, 2018 2:24:58 GMT
I've found that for panorama stitching MS ICE does a better job than On1 PR 2018. Both these pano images were created from identical captures. Notice the right hand palm trunk visible in ICE; this is one glaring omission in On1's pano. Both images were finished in On1: set white and blackpoints, added DC with a luminosity mask, added a cloud texture with luminosity mask. On1 results
MS ICE results
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Post by hmca on Apr 23, 2018 2:40:49 GMT
I'm curious, Pete. Do you think your panorama looks better with the tree trunk? Or did you just use that as an example to show the additional space that might be included using MS ICE?
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Post by Bailey on Apr 23, 2018 3:29:40 GMT
Hi Peter, An interesting comparison would be to stitch the images together using PSE. I do a lot of panoramas and have always found PSE to provide excellent results. Very, very rarely do I have to use the healing and/or clone tools to patch up any anomalies in the seam joints. I usually create a panorama using both the Cylindrical and Spherical options and choose whichever gives the better result. These are 3 examples of panoramas I have made using PSE, the 2nd and 3rd of which are hanging on my walls. Unfortunately I don't have other stitching software to do a comparison as I have always been very happy with PSE. |
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Post by Sepiana on Apr 23, 2018 5:24:00 GMT
I've found that for panorama stitching MS ICE does a better job than On1 PR 2018. Pete, thanks for posting this thread! The weather was lousy yesterday. So, I spent a few hours watching some training videos on ON1 Photo RAW. I have been using this program since it was first released but I feel I have not used it to its full potential. As a coincidence, this was one of the videos I watched.
An Overview of The Panorama Tool
Would you mind elaborating more on the inadequacies of this program when it comes to creating panoramas? I have to admit I have not used this feature yet.
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Post by Peterj on Apr 23, 2018 6:43:27 GMT
Posted by hmcaI used this as an example - to be perfectly frank the palm should be cropped.Posted by baileyI have been attempting reduce my PSE use, however your request got me to thinking. Here ya go - I tried to remember what edits and attempted to duplicate.
 Posted by SepianaI've found the results sporadic. There are occasions when one of the selected images is not included, other times the blending across the images is not good at all. The total lunar eclipse pano image is a perfect example of blending being poor. That's what drove me to investigate MS ICE. I've also had sporadic results with On1's HDR module and gave PSE a try and the images merged perfectly; other times HRD works to my satisfaction. I find On1's develop and effects excellent - one of the highlights for me is the perfect eraser. The Luminosity masking is straight forward and provides extremely nice results. The cloudy sky in the pano I posted was applied using textures in effects (full replacement) limited to sky and water using luminosity masking; DC applied using the same mask but inverted. I also find the layer module easier to use and understand than PSE's layers.
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Post by Bailey on Apr 23, 2018 10:09:55 GMT
... I've found the results sporadic. There are occasions when one of the selected images is not included, other times the blending across the images is not good at all. The total lunar eclipse pano image is a perfect example of blending being poor. That's what drove me to investigate MS ICE. I've also had sporadic results with On1's HDR module and gave PSE a try and the images merged perfectly; other times HRD works to my satisfaction. Regarding the blending being not good some times: 1. Were all the photos to be stitched taken with exactly the same exposure (Aperture, ISO, shutter speed)? This is a must, must do when taking photos that will be stitched into a panorama. 2 Were all the photos straightened relative to each other prior to stitching so that lines that should be horizontal and vertical actually are? Otherwise you will have all sorts of blending issues. 3. Was there sufficient overlap between consecutive photos prior to stitching? If the answers to 1, 2 and 3 are not all yes, then even PSE will probably not produce the best results. |
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Post by Peterj on Apr 23, 2018 15:35:44 GMT
... I've found the results sporadic. There are occasions when one of the selected images is not included, other times the blending across the images is not good at all. The total lunar eclipse pano image is a perfect example of blending being poor. That's what drove me to investigate MS ICE. I've also had sporadic results with On1's HDR module and gave PSE a try and the images merged perfectly; other times HRD works to my satisfaction. Regarding the blending being not good some times: 1. Were all the photos to be stitched taken with exactly the same exposure (Aperture, ISO, shutter speed)? This is a must, must do when taking photos that will be stitched into a panorama. 2 Were all the photos straightened relative to each other prior to stitching so that lines that should be horizontal and vertical actually are? Otherwise you will have all sorts of blending issues. 3. Was there sufficient overlap between consecutive photos prior to stitching? If the answers to 1, 2 and 3 are not all yes, then even PSE will probably not produce the best results. My main post processing application is On1 ... so when the results are satisfactory I don't analyze. OTOH when they are not I examine and try a different application which in most cases PSE. Recently I discovered MS ICE for pano stitching which in this case I used. WRT 1&2 - I can't remember ... #3 always |
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Post by Sepiana on Apr 23, 2018 16:43:44 GMT
Would you mind elaborating more on the inadequacies of this program when it comes to creating panoramas? I have to admit I have not used this feature yet. I've found the results sporadic. There are occasions when one of the selected images is not included, other times the blending across the images is not good at all. The total lunar eclipse pano image is a perfect example of blending being poor. That's what drove me to investigate MS ICE. I've also had sporadic results with On1's HDR module and gave PSE a try and the images merged perfectly; other times HRD works to my satisfaction. I find On1's develop and effects excellent - one of the highlights for me is the perfect eraser. The Luminosity masking is straight forward and provides extremely nice results. The cloudy sky in the pano I posted was applied using textures in effects (full replacement) limited to sky and water using luminosity masking; DC applied using the same mask but inverted. I also find the layer module easier to use and understand than PSE's layers.
Pete, thanks so much for answering my question! You have a lot of experience with ON1 Photo RAW; I value your input.
I totally agree with you. The Develop and Effects modules are excellent. I have been using them more and more in my workflow. The Luminosity masking is definitely a plus!
I don't have extensive experience with creating panoramas. However, I did notice that PSE seems to need a helping hand (more than, for example, Lightroom or Photoshop). It becomes imperative to carefully plan ahead when shooting; otherwise, PSE will "struggle" to produce perfectly merged images. On the other hand, Lightroom and Photoshop are more accepting of less than optimal photos and will create a panorama without too much "huffing and puffing".
Another downside of using PSE to create panoramas is this program's limited support for 16-bit files. If I remember it correctly, Photomerge works only with 8-bit files. |
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Post by Bailey on Apr 23, 2018 23:41:20 GMT
... WRT 1&2 - I can't remember ... #3 always Thank you for clarifying Peter. The fact you can't remember if you used the same exposure and if you straightened the images prior to stitching suggests to me that perhaps on at least some occasions you probably don't. As I mentioned earlier, point 1 is a must do. if the exposure is not the same for all the photos then you are very likely to have blending issues because the tones and brightness won't exactly match between consecutive photos. Photos for stitching into a panorama should be taken in full Manual Mode, not auto or any priority mode. With point 2, there will be a much lower chance of blending issues if the photos are straightened as I described in my previous post prior to stitching, especially if the photos were taken hand held. For example if the alignment of light/power poles or building walls or trees don't align exactly in consecutive photos then the merging application will have to adjust the tilt of one of the photos to make the alignments match. If the application tilts the wrong photo a tilt in the scene will be introduced in the merge/stitch and then blending issues cascade down the following photos to be merged/stitched. I have always used PSE to make panoramas and as I mentioned before, very, very rarely have I had any issues. The only minor issue that pops up very rarely is the need to use the healing or clone tools to touch up a small section of a joint. 99.9% of the time PSE has produced excellent results in my experience. So if you have properly prepared photos to stitch together you should get good results using any reputable application. |
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Post by Andy on Apr 24, 2018 0:42:28 GMT
added a cloud texture with luminosity mask. Peter - Did you use the same cloud texture for each? The clouds in the sky and reflected in the water look quite different between the different panoramas. |
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Post by Peterj on Apr 24, 2018 1:30:36 GMT
added a cloud texture with luminosity mask. Peter - Did you use the same cloud texture for each? The clouds in the sky and reflected in the water look quite different between the different panoramas. Probably not |
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Post by Peterj on Apr 24, 2018 1:34:59 GMT
... WRT 1&2 - I can't remember ... #3 always Thank you for clarifying Peter. The fact you can't remember if you used the same exposure and if you straightened the images prior to stitching suggests to me that perhaps on at least some occasions you probably don't. As I mentioned earlier, point 1 is a must do. if the exposure is not the same for all the photos then you are very likely to have blending issues because the tones and brightness won't exactly match between consecutive photos. Photos for stitching into a panorama should be taken in full Manual Mode, not auto or any priority mode. With point 2, there will be a much lower chance of blending issues if the photos are straightened as I described in my previous post prior to stitching, especially if the photos were taken hand held. For example if the alignment of light/power poles or building walls or trees don't align exactly in consecutive photos then the merging application will have to adjust the tilt of one of the photos to make the alignments match. If the application tilts the wrong photo a tilt in the scene will be introduced in the merge/stitch and then blending issues cascade down the following photos to be merged/stitched. I have always used PSE to make panoramas and as I mentioned before, very, very rarely have I had any issues. The only minor issue that pops up very rarely is the need to use the healing or clone tools to touch up a small section of a joint. 99.9% of the time PSE has produced excellent results in my experience. So if you have properly prepared photos to stitch together you should get good results using any reputable application. The same set of images with the same treatment (none) were used for the moon eclipse (captured pre-dawn): 1 - On1 failed to stitch altogether 2 - PSE 18 had some blending issues 3 - MS ICE out performed PSE - no blending problems. The purpose for my post is to report my results using 3 different programs. When everything is perfect I do adhere to the guidelines (1, 2, &3) - but sometimes everything isn't perfect - below freezing in the dark. |
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Post by Bailey on Apr 24, 2018 4:36:20 GMT
The same set of images with the same treatment (none) were used for the moon eclipse (captured pre-dawn): 1 - On1 failed to stitch altogether 2 - PSE 18 had some blending issues 3 - MS ICE out performed PSE - no blending problems. The purpose for my post is to report my results using 3 different programs. When everything is perfect I do adhere to the guidelines (1, 2, &3) - but sometimes everything isn't perfect - below freezing in the dark. Ok no problem Peter. Without having the actual photos you used and being able to check the exif data to see what exposure you used and how the photos align with each other, I have no way of determining why On1 failed to stitch at all and PSE had some blending problems. I don't doubt your observations in the 3 applications at all, but from the information (or lack of) you have provided I can't tell if the issues are due to flaws in your photos or the way they were taken or the applications themselves. All I can do is reiterate what I said earlier So if you have properly prepared photos to stitch together you should get good results using any reputable application. |
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Post by Andy on Apr 24, 2018 21:33:04 GMT
I don't doubt your observations in the 3 applications at all, but from the information (or lack of) you have provided I can't tell if the issues are due to flaws in your photos or the way they were taken or the applications themselves. That was not the point the OP was trying to make. How the original photos were taken is not relevant when comparing how the three software packages handle making the panorama. |
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Post by Bailey on Apr 24, 2018 22:44:20 GMT
That was not the point the OP was trying to make. How the original photos were taken is not relevant when comparing how the three software packages handle making the panorama.
Hi Andy,
For me it's very relevant. If I was in the situation where I was not getting the results I expected as described by Peter about his lunar eclipse photos, I would want to know the cause. Is there a flaw in my photos or is there a weakness/flaw in the application? From the information provided in this thread I can't tell what is the cause of Peter's observations.
But I am not going to tell people what should or should not be relevant to them. All I can do is post what is relevant to me and everyone can form their own opinion on what is relevant to them as they are entitled to, just as I am.
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