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Post by BuckSkin on Nov 1, 2018 6:21:56 GMT
Moire is a common sight on television, evident most often on large roofs, walls, and such, even to the point of having those spinning clock-hand optical illusions. On numerous occasions, I have seen what I thought was Moire when viewing images in Elements that have repetitive patterns, such as barn roofs and brick walls. Always before, not really knowing what to do about it, I just ignored it and went on about my business. Just recently, I noticed that there was a tool palette in DxO titled "Moire"; I had no idea what Moire even was, so I Duck-Duck-Go-ed it. Armed with this new knowledge and the awareness that I even had a tool to deal with it, when I dropped this image in Elements 7, I decided it was a good candidate for me to try my hand at removing the Moire. Much to my surprise, when I re-loaded the original un-adulterated RAW image in DxO, these distortions were not visible, regardless of zoom level; I can't fix something when I can't see what is wrong..... So, I looked at the image in some of my other programs; same story, regardless of zoom level, no distortion was visible. Then, I went back to some of my finished images that, when in Elements, I know for a fact exhibited very dominant weird patterns on metal barn roofs, siding, and such; viewing these finished images in FastStone, no distortion was there; the images looked fine. Hmmm..., I went back to Elements 7 and zoomed to 100% and the distortions magically disappeared. I loaded the image in Elements 12; at "Fit Screen" view, it looked just as distorted and weird as it had in Elements 7; zoom to 100% and the weirdness goes away. So, the moral of this story is that, you cannot trust what you see at Fit-Screen view in Elements. None of the other programs that I tested exhibited this problem. Note: All three images are screen-shots from the respective image editors. This first image is from Elements 7 at "Fit Screen" view:  This is the same image from DxO Optics Pro 9 Elite:  And, the same image again in Elements 7 viewed at 100%:  |
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Post by Bailey on Nov 1, 2018 7:02:37 GMT
If the moire is not there when viewed at 100% then it's not really there in the image data.
In this case, the moire you see when zoomed out on your screen is a false moire caused by the "compression" of an image that is physically wider than the width of the editor's window into the editor's window. Moire is seen when repetitive patterns in an image cannot be properly displayed on a screen due to the screen's resolution.
On the rare occasions I see moire on an image in the PSE editor, the first thing I do is view the image at 100%. If the moire is not there at 100% then I know the image will print ok with no moire so I don't worry or do anything about it.
But if the moire is seen at 100% then it was recorded when the image is captured and so is there in the image data.
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Post by Sepiana on Nov 1, 2018 7:46:27 GMT
On numerous occasions, I have seen what I thought was Moire when viewing images in Elements that have repetitive patterns, such as barn roofs and brick walls. Always before, not really knowing what to do about it, I just ignored it and went on about my business. Just recently, I noticed that there was a tool palette in DxO titled "Moire"; I had no idea what Moire even was, so I Duck-Duck-Go-ed it. Armed with this new knowledge and the awareness that I even had a tool to deal with it, when I dropped this image in Elements 7, I decided it was a good candidate for me to try my hand at removing the Moire. BuckSkin, have you tried using Elements to remove moire pattern?
Quick Fix for Moire How to Remove Moire in Photoshop
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Post by Bailey on Nov 1, 2018 9:45:05 GMT
Hi Sepiana,
The method described in the video is too labour intensive for me. If the moire is not present when viewed at 100% and I want the image for screen display then I find just downsizing the image to an appropriate size for screen display much quicker and easier. If the image size is smaller than my screen then the moire will definitely not be there.
After all, publishing images larger than the screen sizes they are most likely to be viewed on is a complete waste of time because all browsers will downsize the images anyway to the size of the space allocated to them by the web page.
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Post by Sepiana on Nov 1, 2018 14:57:09 GMT
Just recently, I noticed that there was a tool palette in DxO titled "Moire"; BuckSkin, I need some clarification. Are you talking about DxO Optics Pro (now called DXO PhotoLab)? I wasn't aware of this tool. Thanks!
www.dxo.com/dxo-photolab/
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Post by BuckSkin on Nov 1, 2018 18:14:34 GMT
Just recently, I noticed that there was a tool palette in DxO titled "Moire"; BuckSkin, I need some clarification. Are you talking about DxO Optics Pro (now called DXO PhotoLab)? I wasn't aware of this tool. Thanks!
www.dxo.com/dxo-photolab/
The program we have is DxO Optics Pro 9 Elite; we took advantage of being able to get the full program free forever a couple years ago. I find it interesting, and quite annoying, that Elements seems to be the only program of the many we have that distorts the "Fit Screen" image into making it appear that Moire is present when it is not. Until I decided to try my hand at eliminating this mis-represented Moire, I had not caught on to the fact that it only shows up in Elements. The badly distorted view of the chrome trim strip on the truck bed is what sent me on this quest. |
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Post by kdcintx on Nov 1, 2018 19:17:16 GMT
Here's a video on how to take photos to prevent a moire effect if it occurs. Basically, you can decrease the aperature (for example, f5.6 to f11) until it disappears or zoom in so the pattern size is increased.
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Post by Andy on Nov 1, 2018 22:50:11 GMT
If I understand the issue - it isn't that the photo has a moire effect, it is that Elements displays one in "Fit Screen" view when other programs don't. I don't have an answer to that one.
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Post by BuckSkin on Nov 1, 2018 23:36:07 GMT
If I understand the issue - it isn't that the photo has a moire effect, it is that Elements displays one in "Fit Screen" view when other programs don't. You are exactly correct! |
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Post by Bailey on Nov 2, 2018 0:13:26 GMT
If I understand the issue - it isn't that the photo has a moire effect, it is that Elements displays one in "Fit Screen" view when other programs don't. I don't have an answer to that oune. The solution I use is to downsize the image to an appropriate size for screen display. It works for me every time. |
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Post by Sepiana on Nov 2, 2018 0:14:08 GMT
BuckSkin, I need some clarification. Are you talking about DxO Optics Pro (now called DXO PhotoLab)? I wasn't aware of this tool. Thanks!
www.dxo.com/dxo-photolab/
The program we have is DxO Optics Pro 9 Elite; we took advantage of being able to get the full program free forever a couple years ago. BuckSkin, thanks! I remember that deal now. I wish I had taken advantage of it. |
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Post by Bailey on Nov 2, 2018 2:47:08 GMT
... So, the moral of this story is that, you cannot trust what you see at Fit-Screen view in Elements. None of the other programs that I tested exhibited this problem. ... I disagree Buckskin. I trust what I see in Fit-Screen view in Elements whether I see any moire or not. If your image is physically larger in pixels than the width in pixels of the editor's window, then of course you cannot possibly be looking at every pixel in the image on the screen in Fit-screen mode. You are looking at a "compressed/downsized" version. In this case, aliasing or moire are more likely to occur if the monitor's resolution is not high enough. Any edits applied to an image in Fit-screen mode will of course be applied to every pixel unless some are masked out. Some monitors also have controls you can use to reduce or eliminate moire. I am not convinced that PSE is the only application that produces moire on some images when viewed on a monitor. The same image displayed in PSE on a different monitor could very easily not display any moire. The same image might also display moire when viewed on a given screen but in a different application to PSE.
So unless the moire is actually in the image data, the solution is very quick and simple, as I posted earlier, if you want to publish the image on the www.
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Post by Sepiana on Nov 2, 2018 3:19:11 GMT
If I understand the issue - it isn't that the photo has a moire effect, it is that Elements displays one in "Fit Screen" view when other programs don't. You are exactly correct!
Yes, that's the way I understand it too.
I find it interesting, and quite annoying, that Elements seems to be the only program of the many we have that distorts the "Fit Screen" image into making it appear that Moire is present when it is not.
I got curious and paid a visit to Adobe. This issue has been reported on the Adobe forums going back to the early days of Elements. The explanation given is that, at certain magnifications such as "Fit Screen", Elements will produce what it looks like to be a moire pattern on straight lines. Their "standard" suggestion has been . . . try a 100% viewing. |
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Post by Bailey on Nov 2, 2018 3:28:01 GMT
Hi sepiana, ... Their "standard" suggestion has been . . . try a 100% viewing.
Thank you for confirming what I posted earlier 
If the moire is not there when viewed at 100% then it's not really there in the image data.
In this case, the moire you see when zoomed out on your screen is a false moire caused by the "compression" of an image that is physically wider than the width of the editor's window into the editor's window. Moire is seen when repetitive patterns in an image cannot be properly displayed on a screen due to the screen's resolution. On the rare occasions I see moire on an image in the PSE editor, the first thing I do is view the image at 100%. If the moire is not there at 100% then I know the image will print ok with no moire so I don't worry or do anything about it.
But if the moire is seen at 100% then it was recorded when the image is captured and so is there in the image data. |
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Post by Sepiana on Nov 2, 2018 3:35:17 GMT
If I understand the issue - it isn't that the photo has a moire effect, it is that Elements displays one in "Fit Screen" view when other programs don't. I don't have an answer to that one. Andy, I believe you also have Photoshop and Lightroom. Have you noticed this issue in these two programs? I haven't. |
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