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Post by Bailey on Nov 2, 2018 5:44:01 GMT
Andy, I believe you also have Photoshop and Lightroom. Have you noticed this issue in these two programs? I haven't. I am not sure how your question is related to the Op's query. Surely you're not suggesting that if you and Andy haven't noticed any moire in PS and/or LR then no image will ever be rendered with moire?? In any case, I have seen moire while using PSE on rare occasions. On 2 occasions, that I recall, after returning an image to its creator after editing/preparing it for printing I had received a query about the "wiggly" lines (moire) from the creator after they opened it in their Photoshop to print. After I explained to them basically what I have posted earlier in this thread they went ahead and printed their images without any issues. |
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Post by BuckSkin on Nov 2, 2018 6:49:45 GMT
The program we have is DxO Optics Pro 9 Elite; we took advantage of being able to get the full program free forever a couple years ago. BuckSkin, thanks! I remember that deal now. I wish I had taken advantage of it. Remember, you got to iron when the iron's hot...... I haven't seen the complete Elite package for free since that deal expired. DxO with Prime is what convinced my hard to convince wife to finally keep her camera set to capture RAW. It may take all night and half the next day to render a couple hundred images on a fast machine, but the wait is well worth it; no other program we have ever used can even come close. I got curious and paid a visit to Adobe. This issue has been reported on the Adobe forums going back to the early days of Elements. Thanks for investigating the issue further. One would think that if a dozen or more free open-source programs can get it right that expensive pay-for Adobe could have eliminated the problem years ago. If this distorted fit-screen view is not a problem in regular Photoshop, then it would lead me to believe that it is purposefully there in Elements only to give one another reason to wish one had the big brother instead. |
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Post by Bailey on Nov 2, 2018 7:58:22 GMT
Hi Buckskin, One would think that if a dozen or more free open-source programs can get it right that expensive pay-for Adobe could have eliminated the problem years ago. If this distorted fit-screen view is not a problem in regular Photoshop, then it would lead me to believe that it is purposefully there in Elements only to give one another reason to wish one had the big brother instead. No software manufacturer will give a 100% unconditional guarantee that no image will be displayed with moire in their application. That is because they have no control over the capabilities and quality of the monitors their applications will be used with. Because of the way images are rendered on a monitor, ANY application will potentially have images displayed with moire. Even PS, just like any application, can display images with moire if the user's screen resolution is too low for the contents of a particular image.
You mention your fit-screen view distorts your images. That is not my experience at all, even in the rare situations where I see some moire. Maybe there is a problem with your monitor? |
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Post by BuckSkin on Nov 2, 2018 14:52:41 GMT
Maybe there is a problem with your monitor? I totally agree; there surely must be as it doesn't display the distortions equally across all programs, only in Elements. Were my monitor working properly, it would display the distortions in all of our programs and not just single it out to one. In fact, there is something obviously wrong with all six of our monitors, as we see the same thing on all of them, distortion in Elements and no distortion in other programs. Thanks for pointing that out for me. |
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Post by BuckSkin on Nov 2, 2018 15:32:37 GMT
If I understand the issue - it isn't that the photo has a moire effect, it is that Elements displays one in "Fit Screen" view when other programs don't. I don't have an answer to that one. Andy, I believe you also have Photoshop and Lightroom. Have you noticed this issue in these two programs? I haven't. Thanks, Sepiana, it would for sure be interesting to know how the other Adobe programs handle the issue. |
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Post by Bailey on Nov 2, 2018 21:07:35 GMT
No problem Buckskin.
Images opened in Photoshop can also be displayed with moire.
It would be nice if you post the list of applications that you say do not display moire so that anyone interested can evaluate for themselves if they do or not on their monitors.
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Post by BuckSkin on Nov 3, 2018 0:06:10 GMT
It would be nice if you post the list of applications that you say do not display moire so that anyone interested can evaluate for themselves if they do or not on their monitors. These are the programs that I tested that same image in just to see how it displayed; none of them except for Elements 7 and Elements 12 displayed the distortion. FastStone Image Analyzer Photo Pad Chasys-Draw Paint.net GIMP DxO Optics Pro 9 Elite RawTherapee Picture Window Pro I have several other programs, but these listed are the ones that I tested. |
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Post by Bailey on Nov 3, 2018 2:57:07 GMT
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Post by Sepiana on Nov 3, 2018 3:18:46 GMT
I got curious and paid a visit to Adobe. This issue has been reported on the Adobe forums going back to the early days of Elements. Thanks for investigating the issue further. You are most welcome! It was a profitable visit. I didn't realize that, at certain magnifications such as "Fit Screen", Elements will produce what it looks like to be a moire pattern on straight lines. This is definitely nothing new. One of the reports was dated 2008. (This was the year Adobe released PSE 6 on Mac and PSE 7 on Windows.)
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Post by Bailey on Nov 3, 2018 3:35:25 GMT
I didn't realize that, at certain magnifications such as "Fit Screen", Elements will produce what it looks like to be a moire pattern on straight lines. This is definitely nothing new. My previous versions of PSE were 7 and 10. Current is v14. On rare occasions I still see moire in v14 but it's only on the monitor, not in the actual image data so its not an issue at all for me as the fix if I really need to remove it is quick and very simple. If it was in the actual image data then it might require a bit more work to remove it if I was planning to print the image or publish it online. |
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Post by Sepiana on Nov 3, 2018 4:28:18 GMT
Andy, I believe you also have Photoshop and Lightroom. Have you noticed this issue in these two programs? I haven't. Thanks, Sepiana, it would for sure be interesting to know how the other Adobe programs handle the issue. BuckSkin,
I quite agree it would be so. After all, a given Elements version has a corresponding Photoshop version. Ex. PSE 7 - PS CS4. It is widely known that some bugs, quirks, etc. which develop in Photoshop can (and will) show up in Elements.
I intend to pursue this line of inquiry. I have PS CS5, PS CS6, and PS CC 2019; I also have Lightroom 5, 6, and Classic CC. I will also pay a visit to the Adobe Photoshop and Lighroom forums.
Were my monitor working properly, it would display the distortions in all of our programs and not just single it out to one. In fact, there is something obviously wrong with all six of our monitors, as we see the same thing on all of them, distortion in Elements and no distortion in other programs.
I fail to see how this would have any bearing on the issue you describe that, at the magnification of "Fit Screen", Elements will produce what it looks like to be a moire pattern on straight lines (as it was also explained on the Adobe Photoshop Elements forum). What are the chances of six monitors not working properly and also singling out Elements but not the other programs (nine of them)? I am inclined to look "within" Elements.
Do you know what? It would be a good idea if you posted on the Adobe Photoshop Elements forums. It would be interesting to see their response.
feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/categories/photoshop_family_photoshop_elements
forums.adobe.com/community/photoshop_elements
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Post by Bailey on Nov 3, 2018 5:03:21 GMT
... What are the chances of six monitors not working properly and also singling out Elements but not the other programs (nine of them)? I am inclined to look "within" Elements ... I guess it depends on how many different types and numbers of photos were used in a test. Any application can display an image with moire if the monitor's resolution is not high enough for some parts of the image. The probability of seeing moire on monitors only (not in image data) is much higher when the physical size of the image is much larger than the width of the editor's window. It's extremely possible to produce an image that displays no moire in PSE but it will display moire in another application. If software manufacturers were 100% certain that their application will not display moire on any image whatsoever on any screen, I can't think of any valid reason why they would not state so. And so far I have not seen any information anywhere in this thread that proves an application will not display moire on all images.For a software manufacturer to make such a claim, they would have use at least 000's of photos in a test for their claim even to be considered reliable. Somehow I can't see them doing so on something that is so easy and quick to fix when it occurs. |
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