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Post by Tpgettys on Dec 5, 2018 4:57:45 GMT
When I drag an image from the Photo Bin into the one I am working on, it comes in as a Smart Object, but I don't know what that means. What properties does it have that an ordinary layer doesn't have?
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pontiac1940
CE Members
Posts: 6,357
Open to constructive criticism of photos: Yes
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Post by pontiac1940 on Dec 5, 2018 5:13:29 GMT
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Post by Tpgettys on Dec 5, 2018 5:25:00 GMT
The claim he makes is that you can scale, transform, etc. without loss of quality. I don't see how that can be true, or I don't understanding what "without loss of quality" means.
My image has a finite set of pixels, so I don't see how I can scale and warp it without loss of quality. What am I missing?
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Post by Sepiana on Dec 5, 2018 5:25:11 GMT
The claim he makes is that you can scale, transform, etc. without loss of quality. I don't see how that can be true, or I don't understanding what "without loss of quality" means.
You may want to check . . .
All About Smart Objects
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pontiac1940
CE Members
Posts: 6,357
Open to constructive criticism of photos: Yes
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Post by pontiac1940 on Dec 5, 2018 5:36:45 GMT
Thanks Sepiana.
Clive
(Eyes glazed over😊😊)
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Post by Sepiana on Dec 5, 2018 6:06:20 GMT
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Post by Tpgettys on Dec 5, 2018 6:21:21 GMT
The claim he makes is that you can scale, transform, etc. without loss of quality. I don't see how that can be true, or I don't understanding what "without loss of quality" means.
You may want to check . . .
All About Smart Objects
In your post you said:
I have heard this claim made in other places, but on the face of it it would seem that that can not be true. Any image only has a finite set of pixels. Trying to enlarge it must necessarily get pixelated. Here is a screen capture of one image zoomed at 700%. I can not see any difference between the two regarding pixelation.
smart object
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There must be a difference in some sense, but without knowing what it is, it is impossible to take advantage of. This has always perplexed me! |
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Post by Sepiana on Dec 5, 2018 6:40:39 GMT
In your post you said:
I have heard this claim made in other places, but on the face of it it would seem that that can not be true. Any image only has a finite set of pixels. Trying to enlarge it must necessarily get pixelated.
I have seen this claim in other places as well -- books, forums, webinars. As a matter of fact, Barbara Brundage says:
Then, she proceeds to say that, if you simplify a Smart Object,
Source: The Missing Manual, Chapter 15
I have to agree that all of this is not very clear. I believe Michelle Stelling's video (mentioned in my previous post) clarifies this issue.
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Post by Bailey on Dec 5, 2018 8:37:23 GMT
... The claim he makes is that you can scale, transform, etc. without loss of quality. I don't see how that can be true, or I don't understanding what "without loss of quality" means. My image has a finite set of pixels, so I don't see how I can scale and warp it without loss of quality. What am I missing?
In my experience enlarging smart objects has limitations. The technique is best suited to images with simple basic shapes similar to clip art, although you should be able to enlarge just about any smart object image at least a relatively small amount without noticeable loss of quality. When I first came across smart objects and similar claims regarding enlarging without loss of quality I too was a little skeptical, so I did a quick experiment. I opened a small approx 200px x 200px (from memory) image as a smart object and "stretched it" to some huge size like 10000px x 10000px and got what I expected - a pixelated image, certainly to the point where I couldn't print it. I would have thought that logical thinking would conclude that if enlarging any smart objects to any size without loss of quality would work 100% of the times, people like Topax would not spend countless dollars and resources developing applications like AI Gigapixel. |
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Post by michelb on Dec 5, 2018 10:48:57 GMT
About the limitations when you enlarge: Just keep in mind that the smart layers in Elements are just the original files they point to. - In Elements, that means that the original file, even if it's a large layered .psd or .tiff, is embedded without any change in your current working file (hence the huge size of .psd/tiff with smart layers). - In Photoshop, the target file may be a simple link to the original file, which means the size of your current working file is not bloated/
What you are seeing in the layers palette is a virtual preview of the embedded file with your resizing, moving and rotating choices.
The important fact is resizing. Your preview is always calculated from the real pixels size of the original. You can resize, move and rotate your preview a dozen times, the final calculation wll still be made from the original. If you resize many times a standard layer, that's different, the resizings will cumulate and you lose quality. With a smart layer: - if you enlarge more than the original relative to your final size, you extrapolate. If you drag a picture from the photo bin the preview will fit in the current document if its resolution is ok. Otherwise, it will show in a reduced rectangle.
- if you reduce, the resampling is made from the original which is the best you can do.
In practice, I simplify when I think I'll no longer have to reduce the size, only move, rotate, crop. For instance, I was preparing yesterday a photo book in which I had selected a few photos from Facebook: their previews appeared small on my canvas. This was a sure sign I had to avoid resizing them too much.
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Post by Sepiana on Dec 8, 2018 11:40:41 GMT
About the limitations when you enlarge: Just keep in mind that the smart layers in Elements are just the original files they point to. - In Elements, that means that the original file, even if it's a large layered .psd or .tiff, is embedded without any change in your current working file (hence the huge size of .psd/tiff with smart layers). - In Photoshop, the target file may be a simple link to the original file, which means the size of your current working file is not bloated/
What you are seeing in the layers palette is a virtual preview of the embedded file with your resizing, moving and rotating choices.
The important fact is resizing. Your preview is always calculated from the real pixels size of the original. You can resize, move and rotate your preview a dozen times, the final calculation wll still be made from the original. If you resize many times a standard layer, that's different, the resizings will cumulate and you lose quality. With a smart layer: - if you enlarge more than the original relative to your final size, you extrapolate. If you drag a picture from the photo bin the preview will fit in the current document if its resolution is ok. Otherwise, it will show in a reduced rectangle.
- if you reduce, the resampling is made from the original which is the best you can do.
Michel, excellent explanation! An insight under the hood of Smart Objects. This definitely helps one understand all the statements about Smart Objects, no problem enlarging, no loss of quality, etc. Thanks at lot!
When I create composites, apply textures, or use templates, I favor working with Smart Objects (File>Place) instead of doing a Copy/Paste job. I simplify when I absolutely have to.
When I am in Lighroom and I need to take a file into Photoshop, I usually do it via "Open as Smart Object in Photoshop". I started doing this after I came across this Lightroom Killer Tip by Scott Kelby.
The Advantage of “Open as Smart Object in Photoshop”
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Post by kdcintx on Dec 8, 2018 20:17:03 GMT
Michel - Thanks for a simple, easy to understand explanation. I've never understood the big deal about smart objects. Now I understand when to use them.
Sepiana - I've never done File>Place. I'll give that a go. Thanks for the tip.
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Post by Tpgettys on Dec 8, 2018 20:33:15 GMT
I've never done File>Place. I'll give that a go. Thanks for the tip. kdcintx , you can also drag an image from the photo bin into another image and it will come in as a smart object. |
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Post by Sepiana on Dec 8, 2018 21:15:53 GMT
Sepiana - I've never done File>Place. I'll give that a go. Thanks for the tip. kdcintx, you are most welcome! Give it a try. Post back if you have any questions. |
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Post by Sepiana on Dec 8, 2018 21:21:35 GMT
I've never done File>Place. I'll give that a go. Thanks for the tip. kdcintx , you can also drag an image from the photo bin into another image and it will come in as a smart object. Just keep this in mind . . .
Adobe has been back and forth when it comes to dragging files from the Photo/Project Bin onto another file in the workspace. In some versions of Elements these files come in as Smart Objects but not in other versions. Ex.: In Elements 13, 14, 15, 2018, 2019 a file dragged from the Photo Bin will come in as a Smart Object. This was not the case in Elements 10, 11, and 12. The file came in as a Smart Object in Elements 7. |
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