popcorn
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 227
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Post by popcorn on Oct 7, 2020 15:56:54 GMT
Hi,
I am shooting in Raw and editing in Elements 2018.
I processes a image in ACR > opened it in the Elements 2018 editor.> created a background copy..
The image is of a Fish Eagle > the background was very bland so I made a selection of the background and replaced it with an imported image.
This left a halo which I eventually removed by enlarging the image to 250% and by painstakingly cloning background into the very narrow halo band.
I would be grateful for any advice on how to simplify this procedure.
There were a few other edits done on other layers.
I saved the image without flattening as a psd file.
When I opened it in Faststone, the image appeared as only the background, the selection of the eagle displayed as a solid black silhouette, like a mask.
I went back, made a copy of the file, and flattened the file....viewing the image produced the same result.
I tried opening it in a few other viewing programs....still no joy.
I opened it in Elements organizer and it was perfect?
I saved it as a jpg and it opened correctly in Faststone.
Any ideas what I am doing wrong?
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Post by Andrei Doubrovski on Oct 7, 2020 17:15:39 GMT
Hi popcorn,
Does the PSD have a saved selection?
If yes, try deleting it (Select > Delete Selection)
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Chris
Established Forum Member
Posts: 435
Open to constructive criticism of photos: Yes
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Post by Chris on Oct 7, 2020 19:09:35 GMT
Popcorn, another thing you might try is checking Edit/Preferences to see if the psd files are configured for maximum compatibility when saving. The PSD files will have a greater size but at least you will be less likely to have problems viewing in other applications. Kind regards Chris  |
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popcorn
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 227
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Post by popcorn on Oct 7, 2020 19:56:54 GMT
Hi Andrei,
I like the irony of "Junior forum member"!!!!!
Thank you, it did have a saved selection.
I deleted it and PROBLEM SOLVED.
Thank you very much, I would never have worked that out in a month of Sundays.
I have spent another 3 hours trying to find a solution, why does the jpg file not display the same problem?
Chris,
Thanks for your response, I do have "Always" selected.
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Post by Sepiana on Oct 7, 2020 20:14:29 GMT
Hi, I am shooting in Raw and editing in Elements 2018. I processes a image in ACR > opened it in the Elements 2018 editor.> created a background copy.. The image is of a Fish Eagle > the background was very bland so I made a selection of the background and replaced it with an imported image. This left a halo which I eventually removed by enlarging the image to 250% and by painstakingly cloning background into the very narrow halo band. I would be grateful for any advice on how to simplify this procedure. Hi popcorn, I would suggest going the other way around -- make a selection of the eagle and place it on a new background. However, just making a selection is not enough. You need to fine-tune your selection before you place it on a new background. That’s where Refine Edge comes into play. It allows you to remove the jagged edges around your selection (Smooth); soften the edges (Feather); and adjust the size of the selection (Shift Edge). The Refine Edge feature in PSE 2018 was brought over from Photoshop (back in PSE 11). The Output section in the Refine Edge dialog gives you the choice of having your selection on its own layer. You can also output your selection with a layer mask.  Unfortunately, sometimes an unsightly halo is still left around the selection edges. This can be fixed by taking advantage of the layer mask and painting over the halo with the Brush tool in the Overlay mode. You may want to check this tutorial by Matt Kloskowski; he explains this technique in details. NOTE: It was written for PSE 9 (which has the old Refine Edge) but it can be followed in PSE 2018. Advanced selection techniques with layer masks |
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Post by BuckSkin on Oct 7, 2020 21:37:57 GMT
I saved the image without flattening as a psd file. When I opened it in Faststone, the image appeared as only the background, the selection of the eagle displayed as a solid black silhouette, like a mask. I saved it as a jpg and it opened correctly in Faststone. Any ideas what I am doing wrong? You are not doing anything wrong. A PSD file is a (mostly Adobe) working file --- NOT a viewing file. Save the PSD files as working files; but, if you want to view the image in other programs, make a jpeg copy of the file. If FastStone had first seen the PSD as a flattened file, it would have viewed in FastStone just as you see it in Elements --- because FastStone would have created the associated thumbnail from that flattened file. If FastStone sees the layered file first, then it is anyone's guess which layer FastStone decides to create the thumbnail from and which layer is displayed. At least that has been my experience. |
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popcorn
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 227
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Post by popcorn on Oct 7, 2020 22:40:48 GMT
Thanks again to all.
I will retry by inverting my selection and putting it on the background.
The nice feature of doing using my original method is that the sky is just copied to the selection and it can be moved around to get the effect I want.
I am struggling with getting the wispy feathers included. It is difficult to see what is included and what is not.
From the comments above, my processing workflow may be suspect. I would appreciate any suggestions for improvement.
At the moment I import my Raw files from the camera into a temporary folder.
I view them in Faststone, using the comparative screen. I am quite ruthless in deleting images that are not up to scratch.
I process my files from the temporary Raw folder in ACR, they are saved as NEF plus xmp in a separate sub-folder.
I then re-import the files into to the ACR converter and open them in the Elements Editor.
I then open the Raw module in Elements+ Effects and do what I couldn't do in the "watered down" ACR provided with elements.
I then edit them in Elements editor in expert mode. I do most of the destructive editing using layers and masks.
The final image is then saved as a psd to another separate sub-folder in the same folder as the Raw files.
I then import the psd files into Organizer and apply Tags.
If I want to print the files I convert them to Tiff, print them and delete the Tiff file.
If I want to display selected files, I bulk convert them to jpg. After I have done the "slide show", I delete all the Jpgs.
I only permanently store the Raw and pdf files, which allows me to do edits at any time in the future.
I like Faststone as a viewer because it accepts all of the file formats I use.
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Post by Sepiana on Oct 7, 2020 23:06:39 GMT
I will retry by inverting my selection and putting it on the background. I am struggling with getting the wispy feathers included. It is difficult to see what is included and what is not. popcorn, Take advantage of Refine Edge -- Edge Detection, Smart Radius, Decontaminate Colors. It will make it easier to get complicated fine details -- wispy feathers, flyaway/wispy hair, fur, etc. You may want to check these tutorials. They deal with flyaway/wispy hair but they can be used to tackle wispy feathers. Selecting Fine Detail Using Refine Edge with Photoshop Elements 11Selecting Hair in Photoshop Elements 11 |
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Chris
Established Forum Member
Posts: 435
Open to constructive criticism of photos: Yes
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Post by Chris on Oct 8, 2020 7:56:17 GMT
Popcorn, as Sepiana has mentioned, its important to use the refine edge feature to get the best possible selection. But if the selection is not perfect, sometimes changing the layer blend mode can help to make the object blend into the background better. Try changing the layer blend modes of the top layer to see the results.
Kind regards
Chris
PS with a cutout (not using a layer mask) another option to remove a halo is Enhance/Adjust colour/defringe layer.
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popcorn
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 227
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Post by popcorn on Oct 9, 2020 11:14:00 GMT
Hi All,
I guess that this query is aimed at Sepiana.
I see the new Elements 2021 has a guided edit for replacing skies.
I get the impression that "Guided Edits" are actually a form of "Actions".
I have Elements 2018. Being into birds in flight many of my shots are taken with the sky as background.
This is even more so when photographing raptors.
In South Africa, the sky are mostly a washed out blue, not a cloud in sight. They tend to look grey in images.
The images don't pop, so I tend to replace the sky often.
As you can see in this thread this has its problems.
Maybe it is time to upgrade to Elements 2021.
Does the guided edit for replace sky solve the problems of halo and chromatic fringing which I often get around high contrast edges.
I normally update every 4 years or so, but often find that the new features don't warrant the hassle of the learning curve or the expense.
I was going to sit this update out. Would you recommend me updating from 2018 to 2021 just for this feature?
I wish Adobe would reward loyal users by offering heavily discounted annual upgrades to existing users. I'm sure there would be fewer clients who have not upgraded since the Elements 13 radical format change.
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Chris
Established Forum Member
Posts: 435
Open to constructive criticism of photos: Yes
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Post by Chris on Oct 9, 2020 16:07:05 GMT
Popcorn, you can try the free trial of PSE 2021 for a month to see if it will suit your needs. Here is a review on Youtube. You can fast forward to the Sky part. www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=J7FqSXgpl2kSomehow though I feel the sky replacement of PSE 2021 is geared towards replacing a sky to the horizon rather than cutting out fine details of a bird. You will probably have much better results doing it manually using the available tools you already have. Kind regards Chris |
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Post by Sepiana on Oct 9, 2020 17:04:29 GMT
I guess that this query is aimed at Sepiana.
I see the new Elements 2021 has a guided edit for replacing skies.
Does the guided edit for replace sky solve the problems of halo and chromatic fringing which I often get around high contrast edges. Hi popcorn, The Perfect Landscape feature does a pretty good job at replacing the sky; I tested it in over a dozen images. However, in some instances you still have to give Guided Edit a helping hand. Ex.: When the image has tree branches, foliage, etc. against the sky. I had to use the Shift Edge or Refine Edge Brush and the Spot Healing Brush to refine the selection edges.  My recommendation would be for you to make your decision based on your needs, interests, and budget. I strongly suggest you download the free 30-day trial and test this feature in a variety of images. In this way, you will be able to make an informed decision. The "upgrade" price Adobe offers is not that good. You may be able to get a better deal from Adobe authorized online/local retailers. Usually, their promotional sales give you a better price. |
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Post by BuckSkin on Oct 9, 2020 19:03:50 GMT
Why not go at this from another direction.
Instead of trying to basically cut out the things you want to keep and replace the drab sky, change the color of the sky that you have and then blend the pretty sky on top of it.
Or, use a cloudy sky filter on top of the drab sky.
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popcorn
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 227
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Post by popcorn on Oct 9, 2020 19:53:12 GMT
 I have included the url of the African fish Eagle. This is the photo with the original background. You can see what I mean about the sky. To get the right exposure for the subject the sky gets totally blown out. If you look just to the left and above the left claw( the bird's right claw ,) between the body and the upright branch you will see wispy feathers. I literally spent hours trying to include them in the selection of the bird using a tiny brush with the refine edge tool. I just can't get it right and they are an integral part of the image. Any ideas? There is also a purple Chromatic fringe on the underside of the lower branch which I can't get rid of, even using the defringe command in Elements+. Buckskin, I am a little lost, how can I change the sky colour without selecting the background? I would love to do as you suggest, no halo to worry about. What and where is the cloudy sky filter? |
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Post by hmca on Oct 9, 2020 20:17:07 GMT
I literally spent hours trying to include them in the selection of the bird using a tiny brush with the refine edge tool. I just can't get it right and they are an integral part of the image. Any ideas? If you have a lot of images like this to fix you might want to take a look at Luminar 4With your permission I would like to download your image and show you a few changes that you could make to the sky that would literally take minutes. If you have a lot of images like this it might be worth the investment. It is the easiest way to replace a sky that I have found. fotofrank may also have more info to share about this program that you can use as a standalone or plug-in with PE. |
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