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Post by hmca on Jan 9, 2022 17:31:30 GMT
Popcorn, I wanted to show you the difference that using Jim's suggestion coupled with select subject can make. See that I was creating my post after your post above, Popcorn. That looks great to me!1. A screenshot that select subject initially produced. Click to see selection  2. This selection with a black layer beneath.  3. Going back to original and amplifying whites.  4. With that selection highlighted over the original  5. Clicking on the original and choosing select subject again.  |
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popcorn
Junior Forum Member
Is this the correct forum to post this; but I am open to constructive feedback
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Post by popcorn on Jan 9, 2022 18:28:36 GMT
Hi hmca,
I looks as if the initial selection by "select subject" included a lot of the background.
If you had put a red layer underneath would it have had areas of the original black background showing?
The combination of the amplified whites and "select subject seems to have done an amazing job. Almost perfect.
I think it is better than amplified whites and Magic wand.
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Post by tourerjim on Jan 9, 2022 18:28:38 GMT
Hi Tourerejim, Even though you are a Canon fan, thank you. I have tried it on the feathers. Increasing the whites is a new technique to me. I am astounded at how well the Magic wand worked after the whites were boosted. I have not made any attempt to change the tolerance or refine the edges, just a straight selection with magic wand and fill with red. I attach my first attempt. My first love is bird photography. Birds sit in trees and the background in South Africa is almost always a blown or boring sky. I can't wait to try this technique on one on my many images that conform to the above and change that sky. Have you any suggestions for refining the edge a little more?  When I get a moment I'll look for one of my image.psd files I use for refining edges. Not sure what's happen but can't see my earlier post. I've uploaded these 3 images again to show difference when refined. 
Below is the original and the other one with very little lose of refine edges, so basically you repeat the above and use white layer (feather) and low brush opacity then lightly brush in edges and erase unwanted areas.   |
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popcorn
Junior Forum Member
Is this the correct forum to post this; but I am open to constructive feedback
Posts: 243
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Post by popcorn on Jan 9, 2022 18:45:48 GMT
Hi again.
Why do you place the selction on a black/red layer.
Why not just invert the selection and Edit>Fill selection>black?
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Post by tourerjim on Jan 9, 2022 19:24:04 GMT
Hi again. Why do you place the selction on a black/red layer. Why not just invert the selection and Edit>Fill selection>black? Assuming I've read this right, I keep selection separate from background layer for when I choose a background image ie different sky, the red is just for refining background that may have specks left behind, I find red shows these more than backs/whites. |
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Post by hmca on Jan 9, 2022 20:32:47 GMT
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Post by Sepiana on Jan 9, 2022 22:22:47 GMT
Hi hmca, I looks as if the initial selection by "select subject" included a lot of the background. If you had put a red layer underneath would it have had areas of the original black background showing? popcorn, I'm not hmca but . . .  You can skip this extra step in your workflow (even if you don't have Select Subject.) After you make your selection, bring up Refine Edge. Elements will give you several options how to display your selection while you fine-tune its edges -- displayed over a black or white background, red (Quick Mask), etc. You just choose which one works better for you; you can even toggle them. How to use the Adobe Photoshop Elements Refine Edge Tool NOTE: Just be careful if you turn on Show Original. See . . . Refine Edge and Your Cursor. In the Output section of the Refine Edge dialog box, you will have different ways to choose how your selection should be sent back to the Editor. One of the options is New Layer with Layer Mask. You will get a duplicate layer which includes a layer mask based on your selection. This is very handy! At this point in your workflow, you can place your selection on a new background and check for those halos (fringes) around the edges of the selection which become quite obvious when the selection is placed on a new background. I highly recommend Matt K's technique to get rid of those "pesky" things. Advanced selection techniques with layer masks |
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stinson
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 251 
Open to constructive criticism of photos: Yes
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Post by stinson on Jan 10, 2022 13:32:56 GMT
I watched a number of Refine Edge videos this morning and I thought this one from Ed Gregory was the most thorough. Caveats - its 16 min long but he explains all the settings well. And Caveat 2 he uses a female model. Caveat 3 he uses Photoshop, so some aspects outside of the Refine Edge dialog box are different. Sepiana the first linked video you have does a good job of explaining the brush in Refine Edge but not so much the other choices. The second video has an old Refine Edge dialog box. So this one really covers the current dialog box and choices. And the Refine Selection Brush (PSE 2021) is yet another option that I wasn't aware of until this morning. As explained by Adobe it has four options, yet what is interesting is that the brush cursor changes between A,B and C depending on where your mouse is. Very interesting and worth exploring. Add to selection (A) - Manually add to the current selection Subtract from selection (B) -Manually subtract the current selection Push Selection (C)-Placing the cursor inside a selection expands the selection within the outer circle to snap to the first image edge found Placing the Cursor outside the selection contracts the selection within the outer circle to snap to the first image edge found Smooth selection (D) -Smoothen the current selection |
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Post by cats4jan on Jan 10, 2022 13:42:00 GMT
Red is my choice, also.
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Post by Sepiana on Jan 10, 2022 17:23:48 GMT
I watched a number of Refine Edge videos this morning and I thought this one from Ed Gregory was the most thorough. Sepiana the first linked video you have does a good job of explaining the brush in Refine Edge but not so much the other choices. The second video has an old Refine Edge dialog box. So this one really covers the current dialog box and choices. Michael, That video by Ed Gregory doesn't cover the current Refine Edge; he is using an old version of Photoshop. This is the Refine Edge now available in the current version of Photoshop CC with new features added (Color Aware and Object Aware). The Refine Edge he uses in that video is the one Adobe introduced in Elements 11. It was brought over from the Photoshop version available at that time. They share the same features and adjustment sliders. Matt K’s main goal in his video is to show how you can further fine-tune your selection by using a layer mask (introduced in Elements 9). Yes, he is using an old version of Refine Edge. However, it's also applicable to Elements 11 and above (with the new Refine Edge). Both the old and the new Refine Edge share the three sliders you need to adjust -- Smooth, Feather, and Contract/Expand (called Shift Edge in the new Refine Edge). |
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Post by hmca on Jan 10, 2022 17:39:04 GMT
I have never been able to get good results using refine edge. I would love to see the results of using it on the feathers shared here by someone who is proficient in using it.
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stinson
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 251
Open to constructive criticism of photos: Yes
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Post by stinson on Jan 10, 2022 17:55:55 GMT
Sepiana, all good points. I just found the Ed Gregory video to be the most comprehensive using a familiar dialog box to PSE current users. Helpful to understand the distinctions. @hcma try the video and see if that helps you get some results. Have you tried the Refine Selection brush as well in my links.
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stinson
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 251
Open to constructive criticism of photos: Yes
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Post by stinson on Jan 10, 2022 18:23:53 GMT
@hcma well on my way to the store, the Hooligans gave me the wrong directions. I downloaded the NEF, and as it turns out if you drag the shadow slider to zero, making the background entirely back, then quick mask of the background blacks followed by invert did a great job. Then I inserted a dark blue layer and painted the mask with a Hard Light brush on the center of the feather to fill in some spots. I am back to the drawing board to try refine edge.  |
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Post by hmca on Jan 10, 2022 18:54:56 GMT
Michael, nice of you to try. Yes I was referring to the image of the three feathers that popcorn had posted. I have watched a gazillion videos on using refine edge over the years and watched the one you posted this morning. The intricacy of the feathers makes it very difficult to get a precise selection. Because the feathers themselves have black in them, viewing them on a black background will show the best end results IMHO. See my image above against a red background. I was just curious to see the results that one might get using refine edge against the red background.
All this being said, what is important to remember when making a selection is to keep in mind the coloring of the background where it will be used.
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stinson
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 251
Open to constructive criticism of photos: Yes
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Post by stinson on Jan 10, 2022 18:57:54 GMT
So in my second go around I used the lasso to make a circle around the feather and then used the radius slider to draw it in. After that I used the refine radius too to brush the longer loose feathers and finally shift edge to finish. Look at the full size second image with the blue to see the marching ants. These aren't purrrfect but way better than I could have done in the past after watching the videos.   |
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