caspa
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 121
Open to constructive criticism of photos: Yes
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Post by caspa on Nov 13, 2021 9:01:22 GMT
I am using PSE 2020 and I can add a given caption to multiple images by first selecting the images, right-clicking on one of them and then selecting "Add caption to selected items". This all works fine and is exactly what I want to do.......................but!!.........if one of the selected images already has a caption then the caption I want to add is not added. Only the photos with no caption yet are assigned the new caption. I typically delimit captions in a photo with the string '\\\'. I typically might want to add/append a caption '\\\myAdditionalCaption' to selected photos in the Organiser but only photos with no caption will be assigned the additional caption. Any of the selected photos with an existing caption are ignored. I know I can add/append additional captions to images one at a time using the "Information" panel on the right hand side but I would prefer to be able to add/append a caption to multiple selected items in one go. I was hoping that my additional caption would be appended to any existing captions in the selected photos but it appears not What am I missing or doing wrong?
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Post by michelb on Nov 13, 2021 10:44:30 GMT
I can't find a way either to add something to captions in batch mode, be it from the menu 'add caption...' or from the IPTC panel on the right. The IPTC panel does not skip existing captions, it overwrites them!
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Post by BuckSkin on Nov 13, 2021 11:35:05 GMT
You may be able to accomplish what you are wanting in XnViewMP's IPTC Editor.
The template and application set-up preferences are like an alien language to me and it never does sink into my head, causing me to have to just experiment until I achieve what I want; but, it is a powerful and very versatile means of batch-writing IPTC and/or XMP.
In the load template dialogue is a "Merge Datas" check-box that may allow appending to an existing Caption.
When I need to completely replace Captions that are already written, I find it quicker and simpler to first, use ExifToolGUI to delete the existing Captions and then use XnViewMP to install the new ones.
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Post by michelb on Nov 13, 2021 11:53:27 GMT
You may be able to accomplish what you are wanting in XnViewMP's IPTC Editor. The template and application set-up preferences are like an alien language to me and it never does sink into my head, causing me to have to just experiment until I achieve what I want; but, it is a powerful and very versatile means of batch-writing IPTC and/or XMP. In the load template dialogue is a "Merge Datas" check-box that may allow appending to an existing Caption. When I need to completely replace Captions that are already written, I find it quicker and simpler to first, use ExifToolGUI to delete the existing Captions and then use XnViewMP to install the new ones. Those who are mostly using the organizer can indeed use external tools (even bridge, which may be a nice free addition to the organizer). However, that does not update the catalog. After updating externally, try to 'update thumbnails' to update the caption in the catalog.
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caspa
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 121
Open to constructive criticism of photos: Yes
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Post by caspa on Nov 13, 2021 20:40:33 GMT
Hi Buckskin,
Thank you for your suggestion but unfortunately it won't do what I need.
I need to update the actual Organiser catalogue with the caption for images so I can search the catalogue for images using the combination of keywords in the captions, not the captions in the exif of the images.
For example, I might want to search the PSE catalogue for images of sunsets in Melbourne using the combination of keywords 'sunsets' AND 'melbourne'.
An image with caption 'sunsets\\\melbourne' in the PSE catalogue allows me to do that.
If needed, the catalogue already allows me to replace, delete or add captions in bulk. It just doesn't allow me to append to captions in bulk.
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caspa
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 121
Open to constructive criticism of photos: Yes
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Post by caspa on Nov 13, 2021 20:44:36 GMT
I can't find a way either to add something to captions in batch mode, be it from the menu 'add caption...' or from the IPTC panel on the right. The IPTC panel does not skip existing captions, it overwrites them!
Thank you michelb. It's a pity PSE doesn't allow to append to captions in bulk but only one at a time. But I can add keyword tags to images in bulk by dragging them onto multiple selected images that have existing keyword tags so that is one way of doing what I want, just not my preferred way.
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caspa
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 121
Open to constructive criticism of photos: Yes
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Post by caspa on Nov 14, 2021 1:56:45 GMT
After thinking about it a bit more, I think using keyword tags instead of captions is the better way to go.
I have created a keyword category named Search Words into which I can add keywords to add to images either individually or in bulk.
Multiple keywords can be assigned to an image.
I can then use the Organizer's search function to enter keywords and it will return images that have those keywords attached to them in the catalogue.
This is exactly what I wanted to do but was trying to do it with captions instead.
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Post by michelb on Nov 14, 2021 15:51:49 GMT
After thinking about it a bit more, I think using keyword tags instead of captions is the better way to go. I have created a keyword category named Search Words into which I can add keywords to add to images either individually or in bulk. Multiple keywords can be assigned to an image. I can then use the Organizer's search function to enter keywords and it will return images that have those keywords attached to them in the catalogue. This is exactly what I wanted to do but was trying to do it with captions instead. The advantage of captions is that the advanced search (magnifying tool on top right) works on caption substrings and keywords indiferently. A recent example. To test your batch addition to captions, I had some pictures with the caption: Sous la pluie (under the rain) as well as a keyword: parapluies (umbrellas)
The text search: [Sous la pluie + parapluies] instantly showed the selected pictures.
It also showed an item in which I had edited the caption to be Sous la pluie - parapluies roses without the parapluies keyword. A combination of two substrings of the caption.
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caspa
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 121
Open to constructive criticism of photos: Yes
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Post by caspa on Nov 15, 2021 0:15:56 GMT
... The advantage of captions is that the advanced search (magnifying tool on top right) works on caption substrings and keywords indiferently. ... Yes, and the advanced search also looks at the image filenames. For example, I usually have the suffix 'panorama' in the filenames of my stitched panoramas. Entering a search string of 'pano' and nothing else in the advanced search, all the images with 'panorama' in the filename are found. TBH, the advantage of captions you mentioned is the main reason why I first intended using captions until I ran into the bulk appending to captions issue that resulted in this thread. After exploring using the keywords category to create/register "search keywords" I now prefer going along this route, but that is just my preference. There are pros and cons to both captions and keywords tags. I also like very much the way advanced search also looks at the 'People' tags when searching for images. I can use a combination of People and Keyword tags to find images. Another main reason, with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I now prefer using Keyword and People tags is that I have an easily visible record in the respective panels of the keywords and names I already have registered for my searches. A downside I now see of using captions, at least for me, is that over time I might accidentally use different keywords for the same meaning. For example, I currently have a keyword under my "Search Words" category being 'outdoor'. I can use the keyword 'outdoor' in combination with other keywords like 'flowers', 'sports' etc. If I use captions where I cannot easily see the keywords I have used in the past, I might accidentally start using a keyword like 'outside' instead of the previously used 'outdoor' keyword. This would seriously mess up my searches in the future. Anyway, thank again for your help and suggestions. As I mentioned, I see pros and cons to both captions and keywords but using keywords does everything I need functionally and is much easier to maintain.
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Post by michelb on Nov 15, 2021 7:45:57 GMT
Another way captions may be useful in my own case. I don't use face recognition at all because I have been tagging people manually with normal keywords since 1999. I only keep those which are meaningful for me and I am happy to ignore most of the faces appearing within my photos. So, if I feel it's not necessary to create a specific keyword for a given person, I might mention it in the caption or note with some more explanation if needed. If I have a group photo with several or many faces, captions or notes may be more appropriate than many keywords, just like the pen notes on the back of prints.
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Post by BuckSkin on Nov 15, 2021 9:06:40 GMT
Another way captions may be useful in my own case. I don't use face recognition at all because I have been tagging people manually with normal keywords since 1999. I only keep those which are meaningful for me and I am happy to ignore most of the faces appearing within my photos. So, if I feel it's not necessary to create a specific keyword for a given person, I might mention it in the caption or note with some more explanation if needed. If I have a group photo with several or many faces, captions or notes may be more appropriate than many keywords, just like the pen notes on the back of prints.
I dislike any of the automatic "facial recognition" features and also much prefer to do my own people tagging. Although I have never used it, I would figure the automatic methods would make a lot of mistakes.
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caspa
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 121
Open to constructive criticism of photos: Yes
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Post by caspa on Nov 15, 2021 11:56:10 GMT
Another way captions may be useful in my own case. I don't use face recognition at all because I have been tagging people manually with normal keywords since 1999. I only keep those which are meaningful for me and I am happy to ignore most of the faces appearing within my photos. So, if I feel it's not necessary to create a specific keyword for a given person, I might mention it in the caption or note with some more explanation if needed. If I have a group photo with several or many faces, captions or notes may be more appropriate than many keywords, just like the pen notes on the back of prints.
I don't use the face recognition feature either. I prefer to use the People tags which makes it easy to tag people manually in photos. I tag immediate and extended family members and a small number of friends. With individually tagged people it is very quick and easy for me to find photos with different combinations of people in them.
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Post by michelb on Nov 15, 2021 13:36:23 GMT
Another way captions may be useful in my own case. I don't use face recognition at all because I have been tagging people manually with normal keywords since 1999. I only keep those which are meaningful for me and I am happy to ignore most of the faces appearing within my photos. So, if I feel it's not necessary to create a specific keyword for a given person, I might mention it in the caption or note with some more explanation if needed. If I have a group photo with several or many faces, captions or notes may be more appropriate than many keywords, just like the pen notes on the back of prints.
I dislike any of the automatic "facial recognition" features and also much prefer to do my own people tagging. Although I have never used it, I would figure the automatic methods would make a lot of mistakes. There are many posts about facial recognition in the PSE Adobe forum. It seems that it is widely used now and we no longer see complaints about the lack of recognition. The new version are much smarter to take many factors into account. Most questions are about the slowness of the process in the initial scanning and indexing of big libraries. With minimal hardware configs, that may be very annoying as with other automatic background processes. However, if you have enough power and RAM, those processes can help very seriously for those who inherit a huge library from someone else without metadata tagging or catalogs. Face recognition, geotagging from phones and smart tagging will greatly help for a good organizing start. One word about smart tagging: the results are surprisingly good in general, for instance you'll get a number of good finds for animals or places; but you get a lot of really funny and unexpected results; that alone is worth trying to get a good laugh!
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caspa
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 121
Open to constructive criticism of photos: Yes
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Post by caspa on Nov 18, 2021 6:16:32 GMT
This is part of the "Search Words" keyword category I have set up so far and am using to tag my photos in the Organizer. With this type of structure I can easily search for images in the Organizer with any combination of keywords using the AND, OR, EXCLUDE logical operators between them. If I wanted to retrieve all the 'birds' photos I can simply click the 'birds' keyword or enter 'birds' in the Advanced Search engine of the Organizer. I wouldn't be able to retrieve all of my 'birds' photos easily if I went ahead and used captions to tag images as I had originally intended. The same applies to the other search word categories - Scenery, animals, sports etc
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Post by BuckSkin on Nov 18, 2021 10:40:33 GMT
This is part of the "Search Words" keyword category I have set up so far and am using to tag my photos in the Organizer. That is somewhat similar to the "Tags" tree I use in digiKam; interestingly, digiKam has "Tags" under the "Captions" tab, along with "Description" and "Information" digiKam's "Tags" are what I would call Keyword Tags; in many other programs, "Tags" are just sort of temporary markers and an image is either tagged or not; myself, I would call this "Flags". It would be nice if there was a lot more standardization in metadata and metadata terms, and in just which fields the various programs will fill with whatever information is being entered. Back to the subject at hand ----- I notice your keywords are not in alphabetical order; is that a permanent thing by choice, or will they line up alphabetically the next time the program is opened ? I use several tricks to line up "parent" tags where I want them, such as using one or more underscores at the beginning of the tag's name to keep it always at the top. I also have an entire tree under each parent tag that narrows things down to some pretty minute details. Used diligently and plentifully, Keyword Tags are a very quick means of finding just exactly the image(s) one is seeking. digiKam and many other programs also use colored flags, and not just a single flag, but from one to five flags of the chosen color; plus, along with the standard one to five star rating, they will allow many different colors of stars. Too much such information could get overwhelming; but, if one has a good memory and a sensible approach to all of this, having so many different means of keywording, flagging, starring, and then simple tagged or not tagged, one can for certain separate the sheep from the goats.
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