Chris
Established Forum Member
Posts: 490
Open to constructive criticism of photos: Yes
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Post by Chris on Mar 9, 2022 9:55:13 GMT
I borrowed Helen's picture and marked the Builder's Plate. If anyone has the technology to make out the lettering and what it says, it will tell the manufacturer (ALCO, Lima, Baldwin are the large manufacturers), date of manufacture, and Serial Number; armed with that, it is a small matter to find it's history and where it ended up. Buckskin, I don't know of any technology can read the plate, but there is another method. Comparing the image of the plate to stock images of known plates may give us a clue. The blurry spacing and formatting of the lettering may provide a match to a known manufacturer. Another possibility is if Inspeqtor is able to scan just the Builder's plate at a higher ppi and save as a tiff (not jpg), it may show more detail. Kind regards Chris |
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Post by Lillias on Mar 9, 2022 12:18:15 GMT
I have colorized this using the neural filter in PS. I have also enlarged it using Gigapixel. I was wondering if their clothes and/or the bikes miight give you some kind of an idea as to the year it was taken. Oh I love the way you have done this Helen. It really brings the photo to life. |
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Post by Inspeqtor on Mar 9, 2022 13:48:01 GMT
I borrowed Helen's picture and marked the Builder's Plate. If anyone has the technology to make out the lettering and what it says, it will tell the manufacturer (ALCO, Lima, Baldwin are the large manufacturers), date of manufacture, and Serial Number; armed with that, it is a small matter to find it's history and where it ended up.  BuckSkin, Now that you point out where the plate is, yes I can zoom in on it, BUT I cannot make out even one word. I do hope someone here has the technology to be able to read what that plate does say!! |
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Chris
Established Forum Member
Posts: 490
Open to constructive criticism of photos: Yes
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Post by Chris on Mar 9, 2022 14:00:47 GMT
I borrowed Helen's picture and marked the Builder's Plate. If anyone has the technology to make out the lettering and what it says, it will tell the manufacturer (ALCO, Lima, Baldwin are the large manufacturers), date of manufacture, and Serial Number; armed with that, it is a small matter to find it's history and where it ended up. BuckSkin, Now that you point out where the plate is, yes I can zoom in on it, BUT I cannot make out even one word. I do hope someone here has the technology to be able to read what that plate does say!! Inspeqtor, is there any possibility to scan just the small builders plate at a higher ppi (say 1200) and save as a tiff (not jpg). That may show more detail. Kind regards Chris |
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Post by Inspeqtor on Mar 9, 2022 14:02:13 GMT
Buckskin, I don't know of any technology can read the plate, but there is another method. Comparing the image of the plate to stock images of known plates may give us a clue. The blurry spacing and formatting of the lettering may provide a match to a known manufacturer. Another possibility is if Inspeqtor is able to scan just the Builder's plate at a higher ppi and save as a tiff (not jpg), it may show more detail. Kind regards Chris After reading your post Chris, I did what you asked. I still cannot read it, maybe someone else can. This is zoomed in 300% saved as a tiff. Well, imgbb does not read a tiff file so I saved it to Flickr  Locomotive Crop 300% by inspeqtor, on Flickr |
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Post by BuckSkin on Mar 9, 2022 16:29:08 GMT
The engine is of the 4-4-2 configuration.
The 4-4-2 means there are four leading wheels, four driven wheels, and two trailing wheels.
Most, but not all, 4-4-2 engines are considered to be of the "Atlantic" type.
Also, I cannot understand that front coupler; any American engine of that time period should have the modern automatic coupler still in use today; that looks more like some sort of link-and-pin setup.
Many foreign countries still use the link-and-pin and many men still die on account of it.
Another thing, the wheels all have fenders over them, a feature common on European locomotives, yet a rare sight on American locomotives.
However, from the rear of the all-weather cab to the front-most of the locomotive, excepting the odd coupler, the design is definitely American.
It has two steam domes and says "Balanced Compound"; yet, I can only see a single huge cylinder (per side), like a "simple" engine; I do not see the double stacked cylinders of a compound engine.
And, still so obvious, is anyone with sense enough to design and build this, or enough money to own it, would have invested the miniscule amount (in comparison to the cost of the engine) to have it properly sitting on a pair of well-bedded rails.
I still suspect it is a derailment; however, the ground in front of it shows no evidence that one would expect to see.
There is something going on with an out-of-place pile of rock between the drivers and the trailing wheels.
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Post by Inspeqtor on Mar 9, 2022 22:57:19 GMT
One other thing I meant to say (and most of you probably already knew this): The engine is of the 4-4-2 configuration and appears to be some type of "tank" engine due to the protrusion from the rear of the cab with a shelter for the head-end brakeman. The 4-4-2 means there are four leading wheels, four driven wheels, and two trailing wheels. Most, but not all, 4-4-2 engines are considered to be of the "Atlantic" type. Also, I cannot understand that front coupler; any American engine of that time period should have the modern automatic coupler still in use today; that looks more like some sort of link-and-pin setup. Many foreign countries still use the link-and-pin and many men still die on account of it. Another thing, the wheels all have fenders over them, a feature common on European locomotives, yet a rare sight on American locomotives. However, from the rear of the all-weather cab to the front-most of the locomotive, excepting the odd coupler, the design is definitely American. It has two steam domes and says "Balanced Compound"; yet, I can only see a single huge cylinder (per side), like a "simple" engine; I do not see the double stacked cylinders of a compound engine. And, still so obvious, is anyone with sense enough to design and build this, or enough money to own it, would have invested the miniscule amount (in comparison to the cost of the engine) to have it properly sitting on a pair of well-bedded rails. I still suspect it is a derailment; however, the ground in front of it shows no evidence that one would expect to see. There is something going on with an out-of-place pile of rock between the drivers and the trailing wheels. As I have said in other posts in this thread BuckSkin, your knowledge of anything and everything is simply AMAZING. I do know at one time you worked on a railroad so I know you are knowledgeable about railroads. My father was also a railroader but I did not gain much knowledge from him really. There are a few things you mention here I know what you are saying, and other things go right over my head! You say this engine has two steam domes. What and where are the steam domes you are talking about. I do know WHERE the steam comes from in these engines being the front tank where the coal is shoveled into to create the steam. If there are two steam domes does that also mean there are two steam tanks? How could that be? Do you know what "Balanced Compound" means? Also from the angle this picture was taken from I do not see how the men could enter the cab, the cab in this portion being where the Balanced Compound is written on the outside. I also do not understand the back end of this engine with the tiny roof with a smaller cylinder... is this the second steam tank? The second tank looks like it makes it impossible to enter the main cab of this engine. You also mentioned the wheels having fenders over ALL the wheels. Taking a closer look at the picture I do not see fenders over the very front wheel, and the 2nd wheel is impossible to tell for sure from that wheel being in shadow.  Scan 036-a 100% Crop by inspeqtor, on Flickr The wheels at this point in time do look like they are "even", level with the ground, but of there is no rail under them the engine would for sure sink into the ground. If there ARE rails under the engine they for sure would be easily seen in this picture I am sure. Then there is the tree at the back end of the engine. If there was a derailment, how could the tree have been there at all at the same time as the derailment?? That tree has been there for many years now!!!  Scan 036-a 100% Crop3 by inspeqtor, on Flickr |
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Post by Inspeqtor on Mar 9, 2022 23:03:47 GMT
Just for kicks, here is a picture of my dad sitting in a caboose on his very last run in 1975  He was the conductor of the train so I believe that meant he was considered the boss, am I right about that BuckSkin? This would have been with Penn-Central. |
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Post by BuckSkin on Mar 10, 2022 1:05:32 GMT
Updated and Corrected Image Friday_11-March-2022_12:13 AM If it did derail to land there, the engine would have had to slide or swing backwards to stop just shy of the tree; weird things can happen in a derailment at speed. Another thing I notice - about the boys - most of them have their hands jammed down in their pockets while they are running and skipping along. Years ago, I was in the car with my mother, when we came upon my grandfather walking along the concrete sidewalk in town. In those days, instead of following the contours of the ground, the sidewalks had a lot of two- and three-steps. As always, my grandpa had his hands jammed down in his pockets and his nose in the air, with his lips pooched out like a baboon, whistling as he walked. Of course, I was all excited to see grandpa and was standing in the seat for a better view; we had cars back in those days, with real headroom; a kid could stand straight up in the seat without having to stoop over. I will never forget this for as long as I live and it often comes to mind; my mother, all smiling and waving, muttered as we passed grandpa "Old Man, you had better get your hands out of them pockets; else, you'll fall and break an arm." We went on about our business while grandpa whistled on out of sight. The next time we saw grandpa, he had an arm in a cast and looked like he had been in a fight with a bad bull. Just about the time we had gotten out of sight and sound of him, he got his big brogans tangled up on one of those old crumbly concrete steps, probably looking back at some woman's backside as he whistled along, and fell head-first on the concrete, skinning all the hide off his nose and nearly tearing off an ear, and broke his arm in two places. --- I heard my mother mutter "I told you so."
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Post by BuckSkin on Mar 10, 2022 1:16:39 GMT
He was the conductor of the train so I believe that meant he was considered the boss You are correct; just like the Captain of a ship, the conductor is boss. It is a bit confusing; in seniority, and in pay, a conductor is a step below the engineer; the engineer has more seniority and is paid more; --- however, the conductor is boss over the engineer; and, the conductor takes responsibility of any mistakes the engineer or crew may make. |
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Post by Inspeqtor on Mar 10, 2022 3:36:24 GMT
Thank you for your replies and for the info in Helen's picture telling what everything is!
I do appreciate this BuckSkin!
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pontiac1940
CE Members
Posts: 6,359
Open to constructive criticism of photos: Yes
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Post by pontiac1940 on Mar 10, 2022 4:03:09 GMT
Love this thread. Thanks Inspeqtor ! Regarding C.E.Platt is it possible the word under it is the name of a place. Is it theater or treater or ?? |
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Post by BuckSkin on Mar 10, 2022 5:27:16 GMT
This post was updated Friday_11-March-2022_12:19 AMI found THIS VIDEO, an excellent video - I might add, that is all tank engines; although not American, the idea is much the same. The video and audio on this is as good as I have seen/heard yet. Watch the video as it is a good video; however, I have since learned that the engine in question IS NOT a tank engine as first thought, but a Camelback Engine.Compound Engine info - HERE - HERE - HERE - and HERE (Five links)
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Post by Inspeqtor on Mar 10, 2022 7:26:12 GMT
I may have already said this.... That engine is a " Tank Engine", in that it has an attached tank, instead of having a Tender like most do. I hesitate to say "separate tender" as tenders are more or less permanently attached to the locomotive, are numbered to match their locomotive, and are only ever separated from the locomotive for major repairs. A tank engine does not have the unsupported range of a tender engine; however, in the case of oil-burner tank engines, which this one undoubtedly is, a tanker of water and a tanker of fuel-oil can be coupled behind the engine and hoses and pumps be used to replenish the engine's tank without ever having to stop. I found THIS VIDEO, an excellent video - I might add, that is all tank engines; although not American, the idea is much the same. The video and audio on this is as good as I have seen/heard yet. The problem with searches related to tank engines is that 99% of the hits one will get are all about Thomas the Tank Engine. Compound Engine info - HERE - HERE - HERE - and HERE (Five links) Again you are talking 10 feet over my head. I do not know what is meant by "Tank Engine" vs. "Tender Engine" You say it has an attached tank, but I still do not know what is meant by that other than maybe a tank of water? |
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Post by Inspeqtor on Mar 10, 2022 7:30:02 GMT
You might contact the author of THIS PAGE and send him a link to our discussion and he may can possibly shed some light on your locomotive. Read his next-to-last sentence at the bottom of the page, "These are the only balanced locomotives I have found so far. If there are more they are well-hidden." If nothing else, maybe you will make him aware of an unknown balanced engine. I do not know how to contact the person that runs the page you provided in this link. I would encourage YOU to contact him/her since you can talk his language and he would know what you are talking about! Thank you BuckSkin!! |
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