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Post by srmoment on Sept 14, 2016 2:00:28 GMT
I use the Quick Selection brush to do a quick selection and then the selection brush to refine the selection. Once the selection is done, I use Ctrl J to make a copy of the selection and then add a new layer just beneath it and fill it with white. I then make the selection layer active, zoom to a larger size, select eraser and erase all the little extra lines that seem to always appear, even though I haven't selected them. I then Ctrl Enter on the selection and save the selection.
I have found that if you don't get rid of those little smudges or lines, if you are using an add on like Impressions or OnOne, that these smudges often get magnified in the filter's processing.
As far, as selection tools are concerned, I love OnOne Effects magic brush and tools for making selections, but have not found a way to bring the final selection mask in to Elements.
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Post by Sepiana on Sept 14, 2016 2:19:38 GMT
Pat,
I am curious. Which version of Elements do you have? If you have Elements 11 and above, . . .
Starting with version 11, Adobe gave Elements a new updated Refine Edge feature (brought over from Photoshop). Inside the Refine Edge dialog there is an Eraser tool which you can use to get rid of "extra lines". Also, you can output your selection on its own layer with or without a mask.
 
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Post by srmoment on Sept 14, 2016 2:34:02 GMT
Sepiana, I have Elements14, but I have never been able to use the refine selection tool effectively. I always have to go back in and refine the selection again.
....most of my selections involve animals or people and I have a lot of hair, fur, or feathers to select.
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Post by Sepiana on Sept 14, 2016 2:48:26 GMT
Pat,
This is where this updated Refine Edge shines -- fuzzy edges, fur, flyaway hair, feathers, etc. I find it quite effective. Very rarely do I need to do more touch-up to my selections beyond using the Refine Edge. And, if I do, I don't use the Eraser tool. I take advantage of the selection mask. I use the Brush tool, color = Black, mode = Overlay.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZyRX6yw9g
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Post by srmoment on Sept 14, 2016 16:29:28 GMT
Sepiana, I watched Matt's video and tried the technique on one of my raptors. It did pick up many of the feathers under the bird's beak; however, when I put a white sheet behind the selection and merged them and then ran the image through Topaz Impressions, the stray pixels showed up as follows: (...and I don't want the effect to look like this.....). I find that OnOne's perfect brush does a really good job of selection without stray pixels left behind.  |
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Post by Sepiana on Sept 14, 2016 17:35:27 GMT
Pat,
I see what you mean. I get that sometimes too. Usually this problem is caused by the Radius amount entered in the Edge Detection section.
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Post by srmoment on Sept 14, 2016 23:29:34 GMT
Thanks for moving the thread Sepiana. I thought I would show the steps I've tried to make a good selection that I can merge with a different background. Step 1 - use the Quick Selection Tool A to select the falcon. The selection has not picked up everything I want it to. Raw file:  Selection:  I tried the refine edge feature and this is what I got. You will notice a lot of smudges that will get picked up in an add-on filter like Topaz or OnOne.  ..this is a zoomed in portion of the mask that was created. There are a lot of unwanted pixels and I can clean this up in the mask and then apply the mask to the image, but that is a lot of work. (continued in the next reply section.....)  |
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Post by srmoment on Sept 14, 2016 23:35:59 GMT
...so what I have been doing is using the Quick Selection Tool A to make a first cut of the selection. I then use the Selection Brush Tool A to refine the edges by zooming the image up and selecting or deselecting pixels around the falcon. This is time consuming, but I like the final selection I get. (btw, I am up the creek without a paddle if Adobe ever gets rid of the Selection Brush!!!  ] I then use Enhance, Adjust Color, Defringe layer to soften the edges, and once I have moved the selection to a background that I have created, I blend the edges into the background. [often, this may mean showing part of the original background to merge the bird properly]. I am always interested in how others' make their selections and I look forward to hearing from our members on this. |
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Fauxtoto
Established Forum Member
Quebec, Canada
Posts: 440
Open to constructive criticism of photos: Yes
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Post by Fauxtoto on Sept 24, 2016 12:59:04 GMT
I am always interested in how others' make their selections and I look forward to hearing from our members on this. I rarely select to make an extraction. Usually, my purpose is to enhance parts of a landscape. Often I add a temporary Level layer I use to accentuate the shadows and highlights so there is more contrast around the element I am selecting. To select a sky where there are different open shapes, such as tree branches and leaves, buildings or fences with holes, I set the magic wand to non contiguous and play with its tolerance level. My main difficulty remains with the harsh lines. I recently moved for PSE 10 to 14 and am just realizing that the selection tools have changed quite a bit, for the best it seems. It is in my plans to seriously explore and practice with these tools, including the most important Refine Edge feature, which is new for me. Among other things, I will go back to the basics in the manual. Because selections and masks work so closely together, I am including the mask in my revision. Hours of fun to come. |
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Post by BuckSkin on Sept 24, 2016 14:01:37 GMT
I am always interested in how others' make their selections and I look forward to hearing from our members on this. Someone else told me how to do this and it helped my extraction selections immensely; it also takes a lot of the work from replacing skies, plus the results look better. Once the selection has been made, use modify selection to contract the selection by one pixel and set feather to 0.5 pixel. Contracting the selection cleans up a lot of that "fuzziness" from the outcome. On EDIT: I just caught that I left out an important detail in my description; >>> The selection border of whatever object I am selecting to keep/use gets the selection line contracted by one pixel; however, when I am selecting to get rid of the sky, I use the magic wand to select the black/foreground area, contract this selection line by one pixel, IMPORTANT > contracting my selection also contracts it around the border of the image --- before doing anything else, use the selection brush to push the contracted selection back to the edges of the image border; once all of this is accomplished, invert this selection such that the sky is now selected; press "backspace" or "delete" and watch the sky disappear. When I am replacing a sky, I use a hue/saturation adjustment layer to desaturate the blue and cyan channels; I move the saturation slider all the way left and the lighten/darken slider all the way right; this will turn a blotchy multi-colored sky completely white. Since I am doing this with an adjustment layer, I can make a rough selection on the adjustment layer around around everything that isn't sky and fill this selection with black; this prevents anything I want to keep from getting desaturated when I desaturate the sky. Sometimes increasing saturation or even changing hue on a temporary layer will make a selection border more obvious for the tool to select; raising contrast a lot often helps, as does sharpening in some cases. That being said, I still have a devil of a time getting a good selection in wisps of hair. Thanks for reading. |
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Fauxtoto
Established Forum Member
Quebec, Canada
Posts: 440
Open to constructive criticism of photos: Yes
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Post by Fauxtoto on Sept 24, 2016 14:06:34 GMT
Pat,
And, if I do, I don't use the Eraser tool. I take advantage of the selection mask. I use the Brush tool, color = Black, mode = Overlay.
Sepiana, I am not sure I understand well. How would you use Overlay mode on a selection mask? |
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Post by Sepiana on Sept 24, 2016 19:59:02 GMT
Pat,
And, if I do, I don't use the Eraser tool. I take advantage of the selection mask. I use the Brush tool, color = Black, mode = Overlay.
Sepiana, I am not sure I understand well. How would you use Overlay mode on a selection mask? Fauxfoto, Once you have your selection on its own layer with a layer mask attached to it and you have activated the Brush tool, change the mode of this tool to Overlay in the Tool Options bar. Then, begin painting over the edges of your selection to get rid of those pesky halos. This will help your selection blend seamlessly with a new background. |
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Post by Sepiana on Sept 24, 2016 20:08:45 GMT
To select a sky where there are different open shapes, such as tree branches and leaves, buildings or fences with holes, I set the magic wand to non contiguous and play with its tolerance level. When faced with with a sky where foliage, branches, etc. are involved, I favor the Threshold adjustment layer technique.
www.flickr.com/groups/496435@N20/discuss/72157612933159278/
Another very effective technique is using a gradient.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq5IoKbCSjk (See second tutorial on this video.)
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Post by BuckSkin on Oct 3, 2016 5:05:51 GMT
Pat,
This is where this updated Refine Edge shines -- fuzzy edges, fur, flyaway hair, feathers, etc. I find it quite effective. Very rarely do I need to do more touch-up to my selections beyond using the Refine Edge. And, if I do, I don't use the Eraser tool. I take advantage of the selection mask. I use the Brush tool, color = Black, mode = Overlay.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZyRX6yw9g
Thank you once again, Sepiana; I just took time to watch this video tutorial and I am now hooked. Question : The refine edge feature he demonstrated was Elements 11; does Elements 12 have this same refine edge feature PLUS the content aware thingie (which I understand was first available in E12) ? Thanks for reading. |
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Post by Sepiana on Oct 3, 2016 5:32:45 GMT
Thank you once again, Sepiana; I just took time to watch this video tutorial and I am now hooked. Question : The refine edge feature he demonstrated was Elements 11; does Elements 12 have this same refine edge feature PLUS the content aware thingie (which I understand was first available in E12) ? Thanks for reading.
Adobe introduced this updated "deluxe" Refine Edge (brought over from Photoshop) in Elements 11. It is the same Refine Edge available in Elements 12 through 14.
The Spot Healing Brush (shortcut = J) has been available in Elements for a long time. What Adobe did was just give this tool an additional setting (brought over from Photoshop) called "Content Aware". I believe this happened back in Elements 9.
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