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Post by Sepiana on Feb 7, 2019 22:32:48 GMT
I must apologize since my original post might have been ambiguous. Sepiana, I will come back soon with my color space screens in Lightroom and Windows.
Fauxtoto, no need for apologies. Speaking for myself, . . . your inquiry was very clear.
Thanks! Knowing which color space you are using in Lightroom will help immensely with the troubleshooting. michelb and I are using ProPhoto; our testing has shown no problems. If you are using one of the other LR color spaces, we can proceed with testing them. |
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Post by Bailey on Feb 7, 2019 22:50:48 GMT
Hi Sepiana,
Are you using the default colour space for your screen set by Windows 10 or are you using some other profile or your own calibrated profile?
The reason I ask is even if both you and Fauxtoto both use the same colour space in LR, say ProPhoto, if you are using different screen profiles then that could be contributing factor to Fauxtoto's colour mismatch issue.
It is unlikely your screen colour space will have as wide a gamut as ProPhoto.
In any case, as I posted earlier, if Fauxtoto hasn't embedded the colour space into his exported jpg, then the colour mismatch is very common.
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Post by michelb on Feb 7, 2019 22:52:01 GMT
Another piece of the puzzle: Is Photos correctly color managed? I have searched and found a lot of posts in the MS forums and other sources. There seems to be a consensus that it is partly, but far from perfect. The most definitive one : The guru behind the user name (unknown member) is... the Digital dog, Andrew Rodney.
So, Photos is sort of color managed with its own interpretation of what a goog picture should look like. You have to disable that automatic color 'enhancement' in Photos.
What Sepiana and I have seen is that with a Prophoto jpeg file properly tagged, we don't see the usual huge loss in colors which happens when the Prophoto file is untagged, and the software assumes its in sRGB (that's a recommendation of the competent authorities). That does not mean the result is perfect, but that was rather a surprise since we expected Photos not to be color managed.
By the way, Bayley, my LaCie 324 is not a 'wide gamut' display, but it is calibrated with my Datacolor Spyder puck. That has absolutely no bearing to the present discussion.
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Post by Bailey on Feb 7, 2019 22:57:59 GMT
Ok no problem michelb  I'll leave you 3 with it to hopefully sort this out. I can't do anymore than what I have posted earlier without more info from Fauxtoto. From your description of colour mismatch between what you see in LR and Photos, that is exactly what can be expected if one or more of the following is the case. 1. The colour space used to create the image is not embedded in the exported jpg. 2. MS Photos is not colour managed. I would be very surprised if it wasn't. 3. Corrupted colour space/profile files. 4. Other factors but there is not enough information in your posts for me to determine what they might be. As I posted earlier, the first thing I would eliminate as a cause is a missing embedded profile in your exported jpg. Have you embedded the correct colour space/profile into your jpg?Regardless of which colour space you choose in LR, your image colours will be mapped onto your screen's default colour space....maybe sRGB since your screen is uncalibrated. Since michelb and sepiana both say they have no problem using ProPhoto colour space in LR an interesting comparison for trouble-shooting would be your 3 LR and screen colour space/profile combinations that you each use. For example, are all 3 of you using ProPhoto in LR and sRGB for your screen?If you are using the same combination of colour spaces, whatever it may be, then the likely culprit would be a corrupted colour profile on Fauxtoto's computer. Good luck |
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Post by michelb on Feb 7, 2019 22:59:05 GMT
Hi Sepiana,
Are you using the default colour space for your screen set by Windows 10 or are you using some other profile or your own calibrated profile?
The reason I ask is even if both you and Fauxtoto both use the same colour space in LR, say ProPhoto, if you are using different screen profiles then that could be contributing factor to Fauxtoto's colour mismatch issue.
It is unlikely your screen colour space will have as wide a gamut as ProPhoto.
I can speak for myself. I would NEVER use my calibrated display profile as output choice for LR or PS. I use standard profiles to manage and share files. Remember, we are discussing comparing viewing two sources on our own, same display. Calibrated or not, we expect to get the same look.
Do you really believe there exists a display which can display more than a part of the ProPhoto gamut?
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Post by Bailey on Feb 7, 2019 23:23:45 GMT
No and I never suggested one does exist.
Hopefully Fauxtoto will provide you with additional information soon to help you troubleshoot his colour mismatch issue.
I am helping someone on another project now.
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Post by Sepiana on Feb 7, 2019 23:26:06 GMT
What Sepiana and I have seen is that with a Prophoto jpeg file properly tagged, we don't see the usual huge loss in colors which happens when the Prophoto file is untagged, and the software assumes its in sRGB (that's a recommendation of the competent authorities). That does not mean the result is perfect, but that was rather a surprise since we expected Photos not to be color managed.
Michel, I am coming back here to confirm it. That's what I have seen! Exactly the same results.
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Post by Sepiana on Feb 7, 2019 23:32:56 GMT
I can speak for myself. I would NEVER use my calibrated display profile as output choice for LR or PS. I use standard profiles to manage and share files. Remember, we are discussing comparing viewing two sources on our own, same display. Calibrated or not, we expect to get the same look.
Speaking for myself, . . . I am with you. I would NEVER do that. Furthermore, I expect to get the same look. (This is based on my experience going back to Lightroom CC and Photoshop CS5.)
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Post by Bailey on Feb 8, 2019 11:56:17 GMT
I can speak for myself. I would NEVER use my calibrated display profile as output choice for LR or PS. I use standard profiles to manage and share files. hmmmmm.....why are you reluctant to use your calibrated display profile for sharing images? I always use my calibrated screen profile.
It certainly gives a much, much better colour match on my prints than standard profiles and so I assume it increases the probability there will be a better colour match when my images are viewed on another screen, especially if the other screen is also properly calibrated.
If I didn't use my calibrated screen profile, it would defeat the purpose of me calibrating my screen in the first place.
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Post by Sepiana on Feb 8, 2019 15:17:25 GMT
For the benefit of Lightroom users (especially new ones) who may have stumbled upon this convoluted discussion, here is a summary, . . .
Problem:
From Lightroom I exported a picture on my desktop. I then opened the exported picture in the Microsoft Widows 10 Photos software. By comparison, the exported picture looks reddish in Photos while the original picture looks yellow in Lightroom.
Troubleshooting/Findings:
In my tests, I also tested the advantages of Photoshop or LR to work in the wide color gamut of ProPhoto compared with aRGB and sRGB. The DNG was saved from Photoshop with the Prophoto profile.
Elements recognizes the ProPhoto mode and displays it correctly, as expected.
But also does Windows Photos!
I have just finished doing a similar testing using Raw files, Prophoto RGB.
Lightroom > Photoshop CC Lightroom > PSE 2019 Lightroom > Windows 10 Photos
In all instances, the images were displayed correctly.
What Sepiana and I have seen is that with a Prophoto jpeg file properly tagged, we don't see the usual huge loss in colors which happens when the Prophoto file is untagged, and the software assumes its in sRGB (that's a recommendation of the competent authorities).
As of this writing, . . .
Fauxtoto,
What do you use for the Color Space?
Our common experience with Sepiana is that Photos recognizes the ProPhoto colour space. That's a significant difference with the enlightening discussion she linked to. Now, we are waiting for more details by Fauxtoto. We also can try to reproduce the same behaviour with the different possible LR options.
Michel, that's what I am waiting for. You and I are using ProPhoto color space and are not encountering the problem Fauxtoto describes. Once we get more details from him, we can proceed with testing the other LR options. |
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Fauxtoto
Established Forum Member
Quebec, Canada
Posts: 440
Open to constructive criticism of photos: Yes
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Post by Fauxtoto on Feb 8, 2019 15:47:11 GMT
For the benefit of Lightroom users (especially new ones) who may have stumbled upon this convoluted discussion, here is a summary, . . . Thank you Sepiana, Just to avoid confusion I would add in the summary that the colours as I see them in LR are perfect, the yellow being intentional. It is only in Microsoft Widows 10 Photos software that the colours wrongly tend to red. I will post my colour space screens from Windows and LR as soon as I have a chance, I hope this week-end. |
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Post by Bailey on Feb 9, 2019 0:17:13 GMT
Sorry Sepiana. I didn't notice your post before I replied to michelb's post I can speak for myself. I would NEVER use my calibrated display profile as output choice for LR or PS. I use standard profiles to manage and share files. Remember, we are discussing comparing viewing two sources on our own, same display. Calibrated or not, we expect to get the same look.
Speaking for myself, . . . I am with you. I would NEVER do that. Furthermore, I expect to get the same look. (This is based on my experience going back to Lightroom CC and Photoshop CS5.)
To be fair, I should really ask you the same question I asked michelb. Why are you reluctant to use your calibrated display profile for sharing and managing images? I always use my calibrated screen profile. It certainly gives a much, much better colour match on my prints than standard profiles and so it increases the probability there will be a better colour match when my images are viewed on another screen, especially if the other screen is also properly calibrated. If I didn't use my calibrated screen profile, it would defeat the purpose of me calibrating my screen in the first place. |
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Post by Andy on Feb 9, 2019 0:23:47 GMT
Can we please get this thread back on track? Much of what is going back and forth here is not contributing to solving the OP's problem. The OP has been asked to clarify what he is doing and until they post back, I suggest we just wait and not keep posting.
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Fauxtoto
Established Forum Member
Quebec, Canada
Posts: 440
Open to constructive criticism of photos: Yes
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Post by Fauxtoto on Feb 9, 2019 18:33:29 GMT
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Post by Sepiana on Feb 10, 2019 6:06:06 GMT
In Lightroom, Preferences screen, my color space seems to be ProPhoto RGB. In Windows 10, Colour Management – Advanced tab, the default Device Profile and the default WCS profil for Visualization conditions seem to be respectively “sRGB IEC61966 2.1” and sRVB (French for sRGB). As pointed out by Sepiana , michelb and Andy , the only question here is why on one specific computer (desktop) with one specific screen (not calibrated) the colours of a picture contained in one specific file do not look the same when the file is opened in Lightroom (LR6) compared to when it is opened in Windows 10 Photos software.
Fauxtoto, thanks for posting back with this information! The screen shots you provided are very helpful. michelb , you and I are using the same Lightroom color space -- ProPhoto RGB. This will definitely help with the troubleshooting! Hopefully, focused and hands-on troubleshooting will yield an answer to your question.
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